Posted by unregistered user at 12/21/06 5:48 a.m.

Look at APFM's turnover rate. They don't pay their employees well...if at all

Posted by unregistered user at 6/12/07 12:37 p.m.

not only does A Place for Mom not pay their employees well they are really moving towards a robot behind the phone that doesn't tour or inspect the products (nursing homes or assisted livings) that they are selling. The "advisor" is under so much pressure to "preform" that the quality of the service is gone!

Posted by unregistered user at 7/3/07 3:46 p.m.

I TOO had a real sad experience with A PLACE FOR MOM. Applied for an advisor position, met up on the phone with some little dorky girl, asking about my "greatest acheivement in life" and a whole bunch of questions having nothing to do with the job...

Posted by unregistered user at 7/5/07 12:08 p.m.

I lasted 5 months with A Place For Mom. They do expect 50+ hour work weeks, and there is little room to handle your job on your own. Calls are monitored, numbers are tracked quite closely, and pretty much no money is spent on employees. All in all it was a poor deal for an employee, who is expected to "get those move-ins"... at any cost! When an Assisted Living or Nursing Home does not pay their bill, the Advisor loses the commission; the company does very little to back up their employee. APFM recently lost a valuable member of their management team. They have lots of work to do before they can become a desireable employer.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/11/07 1:22 p.m.

I have worked at A Place For Mom for almost 2 years now and I LOVE it! Yes, it is hard to get ramped up initially and APFM does not lie to you about that. One is told from day one that you need to have at least 6 months worth of expenses money put aside. All jobs are not for everyone. Therefore, not everyone can work at APFM. I worked in corporate America for many years and got burnt out. Thank God for APFM!!

Posted by unregistered user at 7/14/07 4:52 a.m.

Considering Advisor position with APfM. What is the truth about the $20-$30K base plus commission with six figure potential after a year. Is there really a base salary?

Posted by unregistered user at 7/16/07 6:08 p.m.

A base salary? Yeah right! The advisor position is commission ONLY with very few perks. You will be told about the glorious ramp up bonuses offered for making quota- but beware that is ONLY if you make quota. If you are good at the advisement you can expect a boom in your paycheck at around 6 months. Then you are pushed off to find business on your own with little support from the company. If you are successful you can make big money, if not then you will starve. I wouldn't do it unless you have sufficient savings to survive 12+ months without steady income.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/18/07 8:30 a.m.

Thanks for the responses regarding base salary. I don't mind putting in the hours, but indications on the posting leaned more towards six figures after the first year. 50-60 hours for $40K will not do. Can someone give me an idea what the quotas are and how one achieves them? Does it just boil down to outbound telemarketing calls to furnished leads? What is a typical day like? Any assistance is greatly appreciated. Would like to hear the good AND the not so good.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/18/07 2:46 p.m.

I am an advisor with A Place For Mom, which is a fabulous company meeting the needs of many families across the United States. If those looking at this could only see the thousands of emails from families daily pouring in thanking us for what we do, you would understand the value of this company. It is a free service to families, and we REFER to care facilities that can meet a families needs; we do not recommend. And we only refer to LICENSED care facilities, so it is up to the state and county to decide if a facility is in good standing, not the advisors or the company. We do visit many of the locations, but with the number of partners we have, are unable to visit all of them. We refer to a small selection of places that fit the families needs, budget and location, and the families visit and do their own due diligence in deciding if this will be a good fit for their family member. We assist families in finding appropriate resources for funding when we are able to do so, and if not, we can generally refer to appropriate county or state resources for additional help when we are unable to help. The company is very upfront about straight commission, and going six months with low income. There are many bonuses and rewards for those that work hard and succeed. You need to have strong sales skills and be willing to be managed closely, as APFM is managing a large sales team from offices across the US, not in a single office, and investing in training and equipment. Strong performers will make good money, typically over $60K year after a few years, and the strongest can make more and over $100,000 in some cases. No stars in your eyes people. This is a job for people who want to experience personal and professional reward. This company provides leads, but you do have to develop your own leads as well, and there is plenty of training. Not everyone will be able to do this job, but don't blame the company if you don't succeed. If you can't do it, its because you couldn't learn to do it, or don't want to do it. It is the best job I've ever had.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/18/07 3:13 p.m.

I am an advisor with A Place for Mom as well and have been with the company for nearly 2 years. The ramp-up I experienced was EXACTLY the way the recruiters and coaches portrayed it. It did take a good 6 months to begin earning a steady income, but that is precisely what I expected and prepared for. You are told repeatedly that it is a job in which you will have to work very hard and that the first 6 months will be lean. No one glosses over that fact. If anything, they really reinforce it! The job is obviously not for people who don't want to work 50 hours a week and also is not for those who don't understand how to build a pipeline in a commission only position. Obviously some people just don't "get" that aspect of the position or don't understand sales in general.

Anyhow, I couldn't be happier. I get to help families on a daily basis to find the best solutions for their loved ones. They pay nothing for our services, yet the value is immeasurable. I sometimes get calls and e-mails months after placements have been made where family members are just so grateful that their loved ones are happy and safe. So this job is both financially and emotionally rewarding.

I also have worked with A Place for Mom from the other side - with a partner property as their admissions coordinator. It was awesome to get qualified referrals that were pre-screened for appropriateness! A Place for Mom always helped me keep my building FULL because of the excellent job they do. They matched the families needs perfectly with our facility and basically did most of my job for me! And the families who were APFM clients had nothing but great things to say about their experience.

Obviously several people in this blog thought they had the skills to do the job and attempted it and failed miserably. Blame YOUR POOR SKILLS, not the company for your failure. Everything is spelled out to you IN DETAIL about what to expect. Either you chose to ignore the facts, and that's why you are complaining here, or your skills were just so poor that you couldn't do the job despite the incentives, coaching support, spectacular training, etc.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/20/07 1:28 a.m.

More advisor feedback please. Much appreciated. The start up bonuses or incentives--are they based on placements or contacts? More details please. Any info will help.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/20/07 5:18 a.m.

You should also know that advisors who have been with the company for 2 years or more have had a significantly different training regimen than those being trained in the past 12 months. It is completely different now and handled more in a sink or swim style. This may be smart on the company's part to weed out those who are not shining stars, but they have lost valuable advisors as well who simply got discouraged.

Take it from the word of an apparently happy and successful advisor two posts ago "strong performers will make good money, typically over $60K year after a few years". At 50 hours per week and a "few years" to get there? You do the math.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/20/07 8:14 a.m.

I too am looking to work with this company as an advisor and have found all of these comments to be helpful in making my decision. I have been in the senior care industry for 10+ years now and am looking for a differnet avenue, esp one from home. I am a bit concerned about the amount of hours vs. pay because when you break it down you are not earning much for time worked. Everyone keeps speaking of 50 hour work weeks. Is that every day 6 to 7 hours or do most people have longer days here in there. It makes sense to me that you would have to work some hours in eves/weekends to get in touch with family members. I could not get a good answer out of the recruiting manager just how busy you are from leads they are providing at first. She just kept answering my question with "you must be available from 8 to 5". What takes up so much of the time? Is it possible to mesh a home life with this position i.e. running to pick up a child from school, erronds, making dinner, etc and getting back with people after they leave a message. I too would appreciate any input from current advisors or those that did not make it.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/20/07 11:51 a.m.

I lasted over 1 year with A Place For Mom, but had to give up. There is good and bad with the job. The view and mission of the company is a good one but there is much left for them to figure out. Helping families is rewarding but being a bill collector is not. Making $5000 in a month is rewarding but making $300 the following month is not. Don't be fooled into thinking this job is all about hard work. There is luck involved too. If you want an inside view of how employees are truly supported then ask the recruiters how the company helps advisors market themselves. There are no materials available to promote individual advisors unless they create and print them on their own. I loved my job with A Place For Mom. But when I looked up one day and realized that my headset and my computer looked more familiar to me than my children did then I knew it was time to go. I work part-time now and make the same amount of money as I did with A Place For Mom and I see my kids all the time. If you have it in you to ride out the rough times I think this company will go places but they still have some lessons to learn. If you are looking for family time and a decent income you may want to wait until they have a better representation of truly successful advisors under their belt.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/22/07 4:56 a.m.

Another person to add to the list of those considering Advisor Position. Seems the best case stated is about $60K vs six figure (2nd yr +) touted by recruiting. I look towards something that would work its way into approx $75K and am curious what "above and beyond" might be required to achieve this. Don't mind more than 40 hrs -- seems like this must be treated with the same diligence as 'your own business'.

Do I read the implication that the Advisor is ultimately responsible to make sure the referral fees are collected? (ie commend about collector). What experiences do existing or prior advisors have with no-pays being the exception rather than the rule.

These postings are proving very valuable. Thanks.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/24/07 6:28 p.m.

A Place for Mom is a great concept, but this is a terrible company to work for. The owners are selfish and paranoid about everyone who works for them. It all sounds good and it can be, but for most employees, it is a stressful job. The stress is not the amount of work or collecting referral fees from yhe commmunities, it is going months without a decent income and having to fright the company for your earned commission. Advisors are told they will be able to develop their markets and referral sources, but once they have done so, the company takes many of them away and gives them to new employees in your area. The company has saturated every major market in the country making it more and more difficult for an advisor to receive enough referrals to make a decent living. Furthermore, you should know that there are other referral agencies all over the country doing the same thing A Place for Mom does and if a family is already working with another referral service, then you will not be able to collect referral fee from a community that has already received the referral from another agency. Bottomline, the job is great and the company will be one of the worst mistakes you will ever make in your career.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/25/07 5:15 a.m.

This company should be investigated for unfair business practices, age discrimination, sex discrimination and unfair wages. They appear to offer you a great opportunity to work with families, but in reality you are working with their "partnered" communities. These communities receive referrals from the family advisors. Most of the communities that I knew while I was there for several years were frustrated with this company and do not consider their referrals qualified. I once heard that the owners think of the family advisors as Avon reps and that they have no concern for the high turnover. If you are considering working for this company, contact some former employees (they have bodies all over the country) and some assisted livings in your local area to find out more about A Place for Mom's real reputation.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/25/07 7:13 a.m.

Most companies have former employees who are disgruntled and will say or do anything to smear the corporate name. Those types of people are usually obvious and their words are worthless. What I see here is a real problem. I have analyzed many employee to employer relationships. There is a problem here deeper than a few scorned failures. I appreciate the insight and will look another direction for my career.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/25/07 7:53 a.m.

It takes much longer than 6 months to start receiving a steady income and even then, if the partners decide not to pay their invoices, you don't get paid.

I was totally prepared for what I was told by the company: "3-6 lean months". They do reinforce this over and over so I WAS prepared. Unfortunately when I was at over 12 months and it was still "lean", I had to find a new job.

It was sad because I had high hopes and I worked very, very hard (50-60hrs/wk). But who in this day and age can live and pay the bills making an overall average of less then $2000/month?

I have spent all of my savings and feel like I am starting all over again.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/25/07 1:24 p.m.

For a company that just got $9.5 million in capital they certainly don't seem to be using it wisely. According to compete.com the number of visits to their web site is down almost 35% over the past few months. I ha e done searches for senior housing and they didn't even come up. So if they are not spending it on marketing and they obviously are not spending it on their employees, where is it going? Their business model is not one that breeds employee loyalty. I would think hard about working for them. I can tell you that while I think the concept is great and is certainly needed, I am also looking for another postion with a different company. APFM has not held up their end of the bargain.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/25/07 5:10 p.m.

You can expect to work at least 50-60 hrs a week just to meet your quota of move ins. Keep in mind if you don't meet your quota for a month you will be penalized by not receiving internet leads.

Also, don't trust anyone...the company fosters a culture of mistrust between the advisors and encourages them to call a coach to rat on one and other.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/25/07 5:15 p.m.

I worked for APFM 2 years ago and did not get paid on 6 move ins during the course of the year. It was very disheartening to have worked so hard to make the monthly quota only to not get compensated.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/25/07 7:17 p.m.

I too am a former employee and I just couldn't remain with a company that spent so much time trying to think of ways not to pay their employees the commission due. They would change the comission policies on what seemed like a biweekly basis, however never once did they have empolyees sign an acknowledgement. I am confident that the ex-advisor in CA is in a strong position, because APFM can't prove that their employees actually knew and understood the changes to the comissions structure. They operated many years without a formal human resources

We were instructed that if an inquiry had no money, we were not to "waste time" with them, but quickly end the conversation, send them a "list" of useless resources and move on to the people that were smart enough to plan for their old age. There was no allowance made for those who built this country with hard work, that lived from paycheck to paycheck. This is definitely a white collar service. Seniors are not a money making machine. They all deserve to be treated with dignity and respect.
This is not surprising in view of the treatment of their employees. Mrs. Temple truly believes she owns all of the inquiries that are received via the internet and has spent Battery Ventures dollars to put in a sophisticated phone system so she could "spy"on us and remain in complete control.
The family advisor page is totally deceitful, since few, if any of the phone numbers put you directly in touch with the advisor under which the telephone number appears. We were threatened with termination if we used our direct local phone number on any marketing collaterals. We work hard to develop referral sources and they(the Temples) worked harder to develop ways to direct them to their spyware in an effort to pay 20% less commission. The billing was handled by the corporate office, yet they did nothing to ensure the invoices were paid. No delinquent notices....nothing! I could go on forever.
In closing, the "glowing" reviews of working for APFM were likely written by by the Temples themselves and whoever they intimidated into writing one. I have not seen one "glowing" endorsement from a former employee, which is all telling in and of itself.
My advice, surround yourself with talented people, treat them well and they will take care of your company and our precious seniors.
A wonderful concept spoiled by greed.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/26/07 12:10 p.m.

Sounds like a bad deal all the way around. To get some information, I tried to email an advisor directly (bypassing corporate) by using a variety of combinations of the advisor's name and the @aplaceformom.com extension but all attempts were rejected. Do they not even give advisor's email access? This board has been very helpful and obviously we'll look elsewhere. Thank You All!!!!

Posted by unregistered user at 7/26/07 12:33 p.m.

WOW- a friend of mine told me about all the posts here about my former employer A Place For Mom. They are one of the worst companies I ever worked for.
They have no moral basis. I spent years developing referral sources for them and my reward was they gave the sources I develped to NEWBIES so they could keep my commissions low, and keep new people with enough money to keep them from quitting.
Is it 100% commisssion or Slavery? It felt more like slavery when I worked 60+ hours a week and then they would decide not to pay me. They did not pay me whenever they could. The owners are always parinoid someone is trying to screw them which makes for a very unpleasant workday. They are projecting as the are the ones doing the screwing. They are mean nasty and inflexible pretending to help seniors when they just worry about themselves. I would not encourage anyone to work for them

Posted by unregistered user at 7/27/07 5:43 a.m.

It would be nice if John Cook did a follow up article based on these postings!!!!

Posted by unregistered user at 7/27/07 7:27 a.m.

I too am a former employee of APFM. I was there for 4 years and built my territory. no one in this part of the country ever heard of APFM until I started marketing. I loved my job! And then they got the VC money. The hiring frenzy began and soon your leads were going to all the new people..and they would think nothing of hiring someone who lived in your town. This company gets a piece of every move in so hire, hire, hire! Oh yes, if you make waves it is Fire, Fire, Fire!

Posted by unregistered user at 7/27/07 9:29 a.m.

I have been with this company for about a year now and I have had a wonderful experience here. There is truth and false truths in all of the statements that I have read from this blog so far. There are many blogs where people have been undeservingly mean spirited about two of the founders at A Place for Mom, Pam and John Temple. Pam has had a tremendous amount of experience prior to the start of A Place for Mom, and through her experiences working in a various number of communities she realized that there was a tremendous need for a service that provided free consulting and free information to families who otherwise would be lost when searching for care for a loved one. I believe Pam and John to be two of the most caring and also humble people that I have ever worked with or met.

There is tremendous growth in the company because there is tremendous growth in the senior care market. Being an advisor at A Place for Mom is a very challenging job; ask anyone who has ever worked there and curently work there. It definitely takes a tremendous amount of time, patience, and hardwork, all of which is told upfront to all new employees. Alot of the motivations behind sales jobs is money, and we can all admit that money is both good and bad, and we all need to make a living. With this job there is much more than money as a motivating factor in why we continue to work in a job that is a 100 % commission. Daily I receive many thanks for a job well done, not just by families and communities that I work with, but also from a number of people who work in the corporate office that I have become extremly close with. I truly feel that my work is appreciated.

I had happened upon this blog because someone else had sent me the link, and it was very frustrating so see the many negative blogs. Before I was hired I had spoken with three different advisors, all of whom I was put in contact with by the recruiter that I had been working with. I found them all to be very informative and very truthful about the job. I was not surprised about the ramp up period, I embraced it as a challenge, and was actually very successful in my first few months and continue to be successful. There have been a number of many changes since I have been here at A Place for Mom, some good and some not so good, but with any company that is truly innovative change is always going to happen so as to stay competitive and provide a great service for seniors around the country. Change is scarry, but it is also necessary. People always fall into two camps of people, those who are open and embrasse change, and those who fear it and resist it even when it is positive.
I can't say enough good things about this company and its' founders, who truly do value my opinion and who care about me not only as an employee, but also as a person.
I hope for all of you looking to pursue a career with a place for Mom that you do not just take the word of former employees as truth. Talk to former employees and talk to current employees, and you will find the truth is somewhere in between. We must make our own choices, and not rely upon the facts as provided by others.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/27/07 3:54 p.m.

In response to 43132...Don't be ridiculous!!! If you are a sales person on strict commission the only thing that matters is that you are receiving the money that you have earned!!!!

If you want to be warm and fuzzy be a social worker in a nursing home or hospital. Don't let anyone tell you differently, A Place for Mom is a sales job. They couldn't care less how many people say thank you to you in a day.

Just like Jerry Maguire Pam Temple is screaming "Show me the Money"...to think anything else is foolish.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/27/07 4:00 p.m.

EXACTLY!

Posted by unregistered user at 7/27/07 6:01 p.m.

Management by intimidation. A disgusting, greedy company that pretends to care, that is IF the senior has money.

The number one thing thsy look for is sales experience.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/27/07 7:21 p.m.

Well I'm sure glad they turned me down after monitoring this blog which has proven to be very interesting. I thought for sure given my experience in the field they would have considered me, but I did not fit the bill as they put it "they were going in a different direction." I'm sure my ethics would not have meshed with what sounds like to be their norm. It concerns me that a company can get away with such wrong doing and I hope that someone does investigate further. This market is booming and all it takes is one bad company to make it harder for everyone else to make sense of seeking out senior housing for family members. Too bad such a great concept can have such a rotten way of doing business.
Good luck to those who work for them, because something tells me the ride will only get more interesting.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/27/07 9:45 p.m.

ARRGGGHH! I just accepted a job with this company AND now I run across this blog. I spoke with current advisors before accepting the position, and had a good feeling about the company and position. I'm trying to stay positive, but many of these posts are saying the same thing and it's not good.

Are there any others out there with a good experience??? I'm not afraid of hard work or a challenge, but I don't want to get screwed over and not paid for my hard work!

Posted by unregistered user at 7/28/07 4:54 a.m.

I just accepted a position, too. Wish I had come across this blog in advance. If I can find something different and have, say . . . three months with APFM . . . do they come back to me for reimbursement of any expenses they might claim to have incurred? Things like travel costs for training, phonelines, PC lease, etc?

Posted by unregistered user at 7/28/07 5:26 a.m.

Not heard of any problems with APFM seeking reimbursement for expenses after an advisor leaves. You can even submit a final expense report after you leave. What you should think about is staying with the company 3 months, just long enough to start getting moves but not long enough to get invoices paid by the communities. Does anyone know how pre-paid commissions are handled if you quit in the first 6 months?

Posted by unregistered user at 7/28/07 7:33 a.m.

If I had known now what I knew a little over a year ago, I would not have accepted this position. I think the biggest thing for me is that I did not come close to making the "average" $40,000 the first year. I wish they had been more upfront about that. I too was financially prepared for "3-6 lean months" but unfortunately the months are still "lean". Yes, I have had a couple financially good months but over all the average income for me has been less than $2500/month.

Also, it is not all about hard work, as someone else said in a previous post said, "there is luck involved too". You can go weeks without an "A" lead and even when you have a great lead who can afford assisted living, you have to: 1) hope that the partner community will accept your referral and 2) hope they pay their bill when the "move in" happens.

Also, for those of you who have just been hired, keep in mind that the advisors you spoke with about the position were talking to you on the company phone system. I don't think they would have felt 100% comfortable telling you the "good, the bad and the ugly" knowing that the call could be listened in on at any point in time.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/28/07 7:53 a.m.

The advisor I spoke to about the position called me back from her home phone. She had been with the company for almost a year, and she told me the $40,000 in first year was accurate. She did say to make sure and build a pipeline while in the first 6 months. She also did warn me that there had been some advisors that weren't very ethical, but they had been weeded out. She answered every question I asked her, and I felt that she was honest with me.

Question - they assured me that I have flexibility with my schedule, as long as I'm putting in the hours. I have kids and need some flexibility a few mornings a week to get everyone where they need to be. Are they very strict on the 8 - 5? Really hoping I haven't been misled on that too!

I'm going to move forward with the position - I've already invested in the computer, phone, etc. Praying it will work out, but if nothing else, hopefully I'll make the money back I invested in the equipment.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/28/07 7:56 a.m.

If you go out and market APFM in your community with your name and number how does the company "steal" your leads?

Posted by unregistered user at 7/28/07 8:18 a.m.

The recruiter did tell me if a property did not pay for a move-in I would have to do the collections on it myself. They did assure me that this didn't happen often.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/28/07 8:26 a.m.

Is it possible to work another part time job and do this job? I know you're not supposed to, but has anyone done it?

Posted by unregistered user at 7/28/07 9:36 a.m.

1. Any advisor that you speak with during the pre-employment phase has been hand picked by APFM. The fact that the person called back on their home line should certainly give you pause!!!!

2. All of your leads go into their database and they then can do whatever they want with them. I can assure once they are entered into their system they are considered APFM proprietary information.

3. Properties refuse to pay more often then you would like to imagine. Keep in mind if that community finds that lead in their system they can and do in many cases refuse to pay. It then becomes a double edge sword because if you are trying to get them to pay it often creates and adversarial relationship and that is not good if you are trying to establish a good working relationship with a property. APFM knows this and thats why they make you the collection agency!!!

4.Reimbursement was 10 cents a mile for auto expenses.I can hear you gasping as you read this!!!!! and gas is how much in your part of the country????? None of the office related expenses were paid in full...should I go on?

5. As far as lead distribution goes make no mistake all leads are controlled and distributed by APFM personnel. When you first come on board you get flooded with leads and then after the 3-4 mo. ramp up period the internet leads get filtered to a new group of Advisors. Then you are expected to go out and find your own leads keeping in mind that there are several other Advisors in your area and you cannot contact any of their referral sources that provide those folks with leads. It becomes a dog eat dog atmosphere.Without exception any of the current advisors in your area consider you competition and the enemy. THIS IS SALES NOT SOCIAL WORK.

6. There are only a handful of people working for APFM that have been there more then 3 yrs...That should tell you all you need to know!!!!!!

Posted by unregistered user at 7/28/07 9:42 a.m.

You are not allowed to work another part time job. They monitor the time you are working for them by phone and computer. It is not a part time position in fact some people have asked to work part time and they were told no. I know people that had to quit because of that.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/28/07 9:48 a.m.

If I develop a relationship with a referral source, for example a church. When they have a lead for me and call on my APFM assigned number, they might not actually reach me??? The lead may be assigned to another advisor? Is that what I'm understanding?

Posted by unregistered user at 7/28/07 9:52 a.m.

Could you work this job full time, and work another part time (like on the weekend or evening)?

Posted by unregistered user at 7/28/07 11:23 a.m.

Some work pt jobs but it's not allowed. Think twice about taking the job if you're not sure you can make it without steady income.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/28/07 11:53 a.m.

In response to #43301

That's right. You could have a developed relationship and if they refer someone to you and that person goes onto the APFM website or calls the 800# it will be considered a general lead and it will be assigned to whomever is up for the next lead. That of course is determined by the person or persons that is assigned that task on that particular day.

Contact some of the people who have been with the company for a few years...they will be happy to tell you how they are constantly fighting for leads that are rightfully theirs.

Be prepared to constantly be fighting for what is yours.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/28/07 11:56 a.m.

For those of you who have just accepted a position get out while the gettin is good

Posted by unregistered user at 7/28/07 12:19 p.m.

Man, this is sooo upsetting! I already bought the computer they required - wonder if I can send it back.

Is there any way to protect your leads? I would hate to work hard to generate leads and then lose them. I can't believe they do that...it's really bad!

Posted by unregistered user at 7/28/07 12:49 p.m.

In response to 43321 - if leads call YOUR personal 800 number, will it go to you or do they just send it to anyone? I don't see how they can just take leads you have found and are working with.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/28/07 12:59 p.m.

Question for #43298 - in statement #5 you said in regards to the leads distribution you can't contact other advisor's referral sources. So, once an advisor has identified their own referral sources they are protected? How are these leads being redirected to other advisors?

I can't understand why they would set their advisors up for failure by taking leads - it would seem that it's costing them more money to provide the training and the ramping up time for advisors.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/28/07 9:06 p.m.

I am a former employee who had left the company and returned about two years later. I was with APFM from its inception and watched it grow and develop. I worked many hours for very little pay and loved what I was doing. I returned to the company two years later. My first year back was great and I made a very good salary. THEN it all went horribly wrong. An advisor, that I referred mind you, was hired. She came from a town that was right in the center of my territory. Evidently, since there was a town by the same name much more north, they assumed that was where she was from. I called to point out the situation and was told "tough". They sliced and diced my territory until it was virtually impossible to make a living. I was told "no one told you to live in **". I could not believe that after all I did in the early days of the company, this is how I was treated. APFM's reputation in this area is shot.

People receive leads and throw them away because that same lead is sent to at least 10 other communities. This is spraying and praying and not only do the partner communities get upset, the family is bombarded with phone calls.

I will always think fondly of the people I knew in my early years with APFM. I care to forget the people that the founders have become. BTW, in the early days it was Brian, Pam, and Dale who were the founders. This I know for fact.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/28/07 9:30 p.m.

Basically, the only time you might make money with this company is in the beginning - your first 6 months when they are sending you leads and paying you before the properties pay them. After that, you are pretty much screwed because you won't receive as many leads, leads you generate may or may not make it to you, and the properties may or may not pay for the move-ins. Does that sum it up?

It boggles my mind - why would a company do business this way?? I can't imagine that this many people are just past employees with a grudge - it certainly has the ring of truth.

The concept for APFM is awesome - what is their payoff for treating employees this way? They would make so much more money if they weren't screwing people over.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/28/07 10:06 p.m.

Going through the interview process was anyone else asked how many quarters it would take to reach the top of the Empire State building? Odd question.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/29/07 8:54 a.m.

This blog was just forwarded to me by a current employee of APFM. I previously worked for an assisted living community that was one of their "partners". I can tell you straight up that almost without exception the leads were not qualified for my building. In addition when I called the "advisor" (what a joke)she never returned my calls.

I would get "referrals" with no phone numbers or in many cases no addresses. I would be told not to contact the family. Hardly a referral!!!! As someone else said earlier, this is part of their spray and pray method of sending referrals. The advisor names were constantly changing and new people were calling to introduce themselves to me and schedule a tour. Many times these new people did show up or call to cancel.

What a shoddy organization. Our company became so annoyed with the poor quality of the leads and people sending them that we canceled our contract.It was to much work for very little reward.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/29/07 9:19 a.m.

Well, there are always two sides to every story. Obviously, some advisors aren't doing their job - poor and incomplete leads, not returning phone calls. Turnover is always higher in sales - not everyone is cut out to be a salesperson.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/29/07 1:30 p.m.

Is there anyone out there that is currently happy and well compensated? If there is anything you wish you had known early on; what would that be?

Posted by unregistered user at 7/29/07 1:34 p.m.

More on lead distribution please. Is it because one enters their contact/prospect data in the APFM system that gives the company access to assign to someone else?

Clarification please . . . are commissions only prepaid during the first 6 mos? After that, an advisor is only paid AFTER the partner site pays APFM?

Posted by unregistered user at 7/29/07 2:14 p.m.

I can't speak to the first 6 mos as I have been with the company longer then that. You are not compensated until the property pays APFM. If they don't pay then you are out of luck. Believe me I know.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/29/07 3:07 p.m.

re: #43396
yes, you are pre-paid for your move ins only for the first 6 months of employment.

Something to remember: If the bill of the pre-paid invoice is not paid by the community within a certain number of days (not sure if it is 30, 60 or 90 days because no one ever really new the answer), the pre-paid commission is "backed out" of your check and you have to wait until the community actually pays in full to get that money back. After 6 months, you just have to plain and simple wait to get paid.

A problem I had was that the bills would go to the marketing directors and not to the people who were responsible for paying the bills. If the marketing director was on vacation, busy or didn't get around to opening the mail for a few days (or more), your invoice wasn't getting paid. Some invoices had to be sent to the community's corporate office in another state AFTER the marketing director received it. I found that getting the bills paid sometimes took a very long time.

In regards to the distribution of leads, I am not sure because I did not stay with the company that long. I only received the internet leads. Those were sometimes good but USUALLY they were people who were preparing for the future and not ready to make a "move" anytime soon. In fact, many of them, (the ones who answerwed their phones that is) were shocked that a person really called them because they were "just online looking around."

So the "pipeline" I was building wasn't going to help me to pay my bills for quite a while (if ever).

Posted by unregistered user at 7/29/07 3:47 p.m.

What is the precentage of move-in's not paid by the community?

Could you protect yourself by verifying the billing information with the community? Also, would it be possible before sending a lead to the community to verify that this person's information is not already on file with the community? That way, you can be sure to receive payment.

If you refer to a community and they don't pay you, can't you just stop referring to them?

I'm trying to find a way to avoid not getting paid for my work - I can't tell you how mad I will be if I don't get paid. I'm paying for daycare, so if I work all day for nothing and pay childcare on top of that I'll go into debt!

There has to be a way to make this work out! Please, if there are any happy advisors out there please post!!!!

Posted by unregistered user at 7/29/07 6:29 p.m.

Prepare yourself to get mad.If a property doesn't pay there really is nothing you can do except try and get your coach to help out. If you don't refer to a community you risk alienating them and that can make matters worse. It sounds like this job is not going to be a good fit for you.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/29/07 6:30 p.m.

To #43397
Is it the norm not to get paid on your move-ins? How often does it happen? Do you have any recourse?

Posted by unregistered user at 7/29/07 6:33 p.m.

#43402 - the best way to avoid not getting paid for your hard work is to go to work for another company. Plain and simple. The OWNERS and they never let you forget that the company is theirs, theirs, all theirs) of the company have no scruples and couldn't care less about the advisors who aren't making ends meet because their leads are being taken from them.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/29/07 6:51 p.m.

No it is not the norm that you don't get paid on move-ins but when it happens you have NO recourse. Not only will you lose the commission on the move-in it will also be removed from your monthly total. That really sucks because you are penalized twice. You don't get paid and it might cause you to miss a bonus.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/29/07 6:55 p.m.

The sad thing is because employees ( ex and present ) aren't allowed to speak freely or at all, without fear of retaliation, this blog is likely to go on forever. What goes around comes around. It kinda puts the kabash on their plans to go public. WHo in their right mind would invest anything in this company. I feel sorry for the people hanging around because of the worthless stock options they give out. Pretty sad!

Posted by unregistered user at 7/29/07 7:42 p.m.

How many people get to go on the annual cruise? Also, do they pay your expenses for the annual sales meeting?

Posted by unregistered user at 7/30/07 6:25 a.m.

My most shocking was hearing them use the phrase "Get the Head in the Bed'!!! Of course this was an internal Phrase. I was so upset and disappointed that after all the effort of training and doing ALL the things they wanted for your Home office that you are literally tied to your key board and Head Set.I was looking to help families not spend hours on line "tasking" every move I made...then going out only once a week to visit properties that had already seen a host of other APFM advisors. I had more places tell me we have not had qualified lead from you than qualified.Damage control needed to be done on a daily basis. After they wine and Dine you and fill you with dreams of a free car and cruises it's hard to see the reality of it.If you are not relying on your income as steady and to be the main support, enjoying being on the phone all day and don't mind working nights and weekends then this is the job for you!

Posted by unregistered user at 7/30/07 6:38 a.m.

A clear picture of APFM is forming. I'm so disappointed.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/30/07 6:50 a.m.

Why are so many unqualified leads sent to communities? It sounds like the training by APFM is extensive. Is the problem that some of the advisors don't understand or take the time to qualify? Or, does APFM encourage this - "spray and pray" as someone mentioned before?

I hope that someone at APFM is reading this blog and will take the time to look into the concerns raised here. This could be a wonderful job, providing an incredible service to elders and their families.

There are two sides to every story, but there seems to be an underlying theme throughout this blog of a company that doesn't care about it's employees.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/30/07 7:13 a.m.

I was under the impression that the coaches started as advisors. Tell me a little more about the coaches. Are they helpful during your training?

Posted by unregistered user at 7/30/07 7:34 a.m.

The training is overwhelming!!!!! Way to much information is pushed on you in a short time... then once you are home and start working there is more to learn and you must now reach your goals and be on point!! The coaches don't always really listen to what you say they are so programed .... the bottom line is not always to help the families it's determine the need in which will give you the most return for APFM. I think if you were a former cheerleader or "PEP" squad leader you will fit right in with the enthusiasm of the trainers and coaches.I personally could not approach a family in need as a "pep rally"!!

Posted by unregistered user at 7/30/07 7:47 a.m.

You are Paid once your partner has paid the move in fee(this could be up to 30 days)..you have done the paper work and confirmed the move in and what they are paying....There are set BASE commissions for Nursing homes etc, so you can work your tail off for a family but STILL will only get the blanket commission paid.There are GREAT success stories but they are far and few between!!!And you are told over and over and OVER again if you want to be successful stick to "our"program, those that don't don't succeed!

Posted by unregistered user at 7/30/07 7:54 a.m.

Do they actually tell you not to do what is best for the family?

I thought the whole point was to help the family find the best fit for them. I can understand that if the family doesn't have money or LTC insurance that they would be referred to some other agency or medicaid. APFM does need to make money - I would just hope that first and foremost would be the proper needs of the family not just the all mighty dollar!

I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I didn't take care of these families like they were my own.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/30/07 7:55 a.m.

It is important to note that you can lose a move in several ways:
1. The community already has already been working with the family.
2. The community received the lead from another referral service. APFM will probably not tell you this, but if the community received the lead from another referral service, you cannot invoice this community if it becomes a move in. The coaches need to coach advisors to back off if another referral service has already referred the family. It is a waste of the adviors time to send the lead. If the advisor and/or coach decides to pursue a referral fee that actually belongs to another referral service, whether it has been claimed yet or not, is grounds for lawsuit against APFM. They should be careful.
3. The family is working with care manager and he or she has already referred the family to the community.
APFM advisors will likely try to claim a referral fee in many of these cases, but again, this is unethical behavior and encouraged by the coaches and owners.

Just keep in mind it is not as simple as getting a name and sending out the information anymore. You have to access whether you are the only one working with the family and check with the communities to make sure they have not already received the lead from another source.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/30/07 7:56 a.m.

Are you seriously on the phone for 8-10 hours straight?