Posted by nullbull at 10/16/08 1:05 p.m.

I almost feel sorry for the guy. He's not a political celebrity, he's a political football. Let him be. For every plumber who wants to buy the business he works for, there are 10 independent plumbers who are shelling out too much for private healthcare. There are plumbers who are moving into other fields because the economy is tanking, and subdivisions aren't popping up everywhere any more. There are plumbers who want to college educate their kids.

Plumbers are just Americans, with all the same problems as IT workers, business owners, desk-jockies, and students.

Posted by unregistered user at 10/16/08 1:27 p.m.

When you decide to walk up to a senator who is running for president and run your mouth with cameras rolling, you gotta be ready for the backlash. Joe stepped in it. Poor sap. Don't feel sorry for him a bit.

Posted by jasonj at 10/16/08 1:42 p.m.

unregistered user,

Why should he be punished for asking a question that the media won't? Is because of the answer Obama gave? That's the scary part.

Posted by unregistered user at 10/16/08 1:52 p.m.

Since it turns out that Joe the Plumber isn't even a licensed plumber and is a bona fide tax evader, it looks like John McCain, true to form, has another vetting problem on his hands.

Posted by unregistered user at 10/16/08 1:53 p.m.

Who cares about this guy's license? He asked a legitimate question that impacts MANY other Americans!

"Spread the wealth" is a disrespectful concept to those of us who pay a ridiculous amout of taxes… Let's try something new… FAIR TAX. Then, we could spread it all over the place.

Posted by codyt at 10/16/08 1:58 p.m.

Looks like the libby's are afraid of Joe the Plumber..if the fact that the liberal media runs a smear campain on a plumber who asked a valid question of a candidate for president does not scare you....I do not know what will....

Posted by unregistered user at 10/16/08 2:08 p.m.

I care if he has a license and if he really has a business plan to purchase a business. If he doesn't, then he is most likely just a Republican plant spouting off talking points and lying about his motivations.

Here is what we do know about "Joe the plant:"

He owes back taxes to the point they had to put a lien on him.

He has no business plan.

He has no plumbing license, which you would need to own a plumbing business.

He is a registered Republican, not an undecided voter.

He is linked to the Keatings, of the Keating 5.

He doesn't seem to understand the difference between what a company makes (gross) and what he would have to pay taxes on (net,) which is fundamental to his initial question.

So, knowing the above, do you think he is an "average Joe," and if he did own a company that nets more than $250,000 a year is he an average Joe?

Posted by unregistered user at 10/16/08 2:10 p.m.

Obama's thugs in the media can do all they like to slander this guy but they will never be able to come up with a way to hide Obama's socialism. The guy is proud to be a socialist and running for president of the UNITED STATES. How scary is that?

Posted by unregistered user at 10/16/08 2:11 p.m.

Typical liberals,

Spewing nasty venomous insults and maligning anyone that doesn't agree with them.

Posted by unregistered user at 10/16/08 2:14 p.m.

Uhhhh, you're the one who doesn't understand the difference between gross and net income. You are taxed on your gross and the net is what's left after taxes, etc. Duh

Posted by kjeroh at 10/16/08 2:15 p.m.

No one is slandering Joe the Plumber. McCain's people decided to make him a national icon without doing a rudimentary background check. It's standard operating procedure in journalism to find background on a person. The media didn't make his troubles for him. And it isn't slander if it's true.
And Obama is not a socialist. However, the fact that he can run for president of this country isn't scary. It's something that every single American - despite their political stripe - should be infinitely proud of. What every single American can also be proud of is that if Obama were actually a socialist he wouldn't be in the position he's in right now.

Posted by thesmallprint at 10/16/08 2:15 p.m.

When I heard this, I had a lot of questions. First of all, if this plumber is making over $200,000 a year, what is the size of the business he is trying to buy? With those numbers, it sounds like a regional company with a fleet of trucks. I'd have to see the numbers to understand the actual situation. And if the company is too large for someone making over $200k a year to buy, could it be that this person lacks the business background to put together a credible offer? Is the company realistically within his reach, or is this a dream that is unsupported by the numbers? Lots of questions. If McCain is going to bring this up as a significant campaign issue, let's see a case study on McCain's website that shows why this guy can't buy a company that is within his reach, and how McCain's tax policies will change that situation. Until then, I can't fathom how the numbers add up.

Posted by unregistered user at 10/16/08 2:31 p.m.

Yet another instance where McCain proved that his impulsiveness will be a disaster for America. It is 100% clear that McCain did not exercise even a modicum of due diligence in choosing Joe the Plumber as his exemplar for the fraudulent concept that if you earn $250 K you are middle class and that Obama's plan will hurt small business.. Not only has he done Joe no favors, which Joe is too dumb to realize, Joe is another delusional American who thinks he will be rich someday and that it is the "socialists" fault that he's not making headway. I'm a lawyer in Philadelphia and I don't make nearly that much and I will be extremely lucky if I ever do.

Once again, McCain has shown that he doesn't know the difference between "strategy" and "tactics" his whole campaign is a complete non sequitur of various un-vetted gimmicks. God pray for us if this impetuous idiot becomes president with his "hockey mom" dolt waiting in the wings...

PS: Monica Guzman, I'm not sure how Obama can be blamed for this as you attempt to place the blame on both candidates evenly for using Joe as a "Puppet." Once again in your effort to sound balanced, you have lost all fairness in the old media game of false equivalency. If you were a better writer you might issue a clarification…

Posted by James1 at 10/16/08 2:32 p.m.

Well, now we have some more insight into the competence of John McCain. In this case, he totally shot from the hip. Joe the Plumber is not a plumber (he has no licence, and beleive me, you do not ever want to have an unlicensed plubmer do work on your house), and he makes no where near the $250k that might have subjected him to increased taxes under Obama's plan. McCain must made the whole story up. Why would anyone vote for this guy? He is looking more and more like George Bush every day, including now the lack of interest in checking into the facts before shooting off his mouth.

Posted by unregistered user at 10/16/08 2:36 p.m.

Go look up socialism. And all the guy did was ask Obama a legitimate question. Obama should be the one under the gun for his answer but instead the media turns on the guy who asked the question that reveals Obama for what he is. My God you liberals are not very bright.

Posted by unregistered user at 10/16/08 2:36 p.m.

Joe the Plumber has a tax lein?

Hey, just like Charlie Rangel and Al Franken!

Posted by ducttape2 at 10/16/08 2:37 p.m.

The bottom line is that Joe is not running for President, Obama is the candidate.

The question remains valid and Obama was happy to explain how he really feels about economics. His response to a question about tax policy revealed the fact that Obama is a Socialist, PERIOD.

Nice try changing the subject, but the issue here is Obama's socialism. Spreading it' around, is not the American way.

Posted by ducttape2 at 10/16/08 2:39 p.m.

Posted by unregistered user at 10/16/08 2:36 p.m.

Joe the Plumber has a tax lein?

Hey, just like Charlie Rangel and Al Franken!


Shissh! One of the brain washed Obamunists might turn you in for a hate crime.

Posted by unregistered user at 10/16/08 2:39 p.m.

Here are the court dockets:

http://apps.co.lucas.oh.us/onlinedockets/Docket.aspx?ST...

http://apps.co.lucas.oh.us/onlinedockets/DocketDR.aspx?STYPE=1&PAR=DR19970476&STARTDATE=01/01/1900&ENDDATE=01/01/2100&PARTY=D,1

Posted by unregistered user at 10/16/08 2:42 p.m.

wow very interesting
http://www.jaiderbertoli.com/blog/9-blog/10-joe-the-plumber-not-a-licensed-plumber

Posted by unregistered user at 10/16/08 2:42 p.m.

I do think it is interesting that Joe "the Plumber" Wurzelbacher just so happens to be the son of Robert Wurzelbacher, the son-in-law of--guess who?--none other than Robert Keating of the KEATING FIVE... unbiased, neutral, "average Joe" indeed...

Posted by unregistered user at 10/16/08 2:43 p.m.

I'm missing something, didn't McCain bring up Joe the Plumber? How is Obama attacking him? Did anyone actually watch Obama's answer to the question? He explained cogently that it is a marginal tax, which for those who are uninformed means that only net revenue or profits in excess of $250K would be taxed at 39% instead of 36%. Not the entire principal. I don't think conservatives understand basic concepts such as profits and marginal tax rates. It really boggles the mind...

Posted by ducttape2 at 10/16/08 2:45 p.m.

Say what you want Obama is a commie and there is no denying the fact that he will take your money and guns (or just tax the crap out of the ammo).

Posted by ducttape2 at 10/16/08 2:46 p.m.

Proof that our failing education system when people actually think Obama is going to not raise taxes to pay for all of his BS programs.

Posted by Charles III at 10/16/08 2:47 p.m.

"Since it turns out that Joe the Plumber isn't even a licensed plumber and is a bona fide tax evader, it looks like John McCain, true to form, has another vetting problem on his hands."

hear hear!

and genuine republican to boot.

Posted by unregistered user at 10/16/08 2:47 p.m.

People like ducttape2 do McCain no favors. No independents will vote for him with yhis cadre of know-nothings...

Posted by tevis at 10/16/08 2:51 p.m.

Republifraud.

Posted by unregistered user at 10/16/08 2:51 p.m.

When I saw Joe Wurzelbacher's chat with Obama, I was scratching my head at the idea of a small business plumber making over $250,000 a year. But after reading all of the info that has been found, Joe is someone I don't want to be compared to. He may live in the neighborhood, but he's not an example of every American in the country. I can't say if he's a plant by the Republican party, but he doesn't come off as being the same kind of working man that most people are in the US. If you're a small business that makes over $250,000 after expenses (materials, payroll, etc), you're still doing better than 95% of the rest of us. Pay your damn share.

Posted by tevis at 10/16/08 2:55 p.m.

Well,

It's easy to make over $250K per year when you are unlicensed, and extorting and defrauding customers. But Joe Whatshisbuttsname needs a tax break, to pay off all those court liens.

Posted by unregistered user at 10/16/08 3:02 p.m.

Mccain plans to "spread around the wealth around" by taxing the poor folks and giving tax breaks to the very wealthy oil companies

his pitch for middle america is only a pitch for their vote

Posted by Brittanicus at 10/16/08 3:12 p.m.

FORGET JOE THE PLUMBER...!
I'm more worried about VOTER FRAUD! I'm not even a Republican, but a Independent! My question is how many foreign nationals will vote in the general election? If Some five million fraudulent home mortgages are in the hands of illegal aliens, according to the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development. Can they use the (IRS) ITIN number that many used as identification, in buying homes.

Can they use the same issued Federal ID number, to vote illegally in NOVEMBER? Have hundreds of thousands of illegal aliens been issued absentee ballots or been placed ominously on the voter rolls? HAS OUR WHOLE DEMOCRATIC VOTING PROCESS BEEN COMPROMISED?

THIS IS PROGRESSIVE DANGER TO BOTH DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS!

Read what Rep. Tom Tancredo (CO) Interview at YALE UNIVERSITY about the illegal immigrant occupation of our country: www.thepolitic.org/content/view/109/ IT WILL CHANGE YOUR MIND ABOUT THIS EVER INCREASING PLAGUE.

The middle class already overburdened with war appropriation funds, is still force to pay for the education, free health-care and Federal, state welfare handouts for illegal criminals and millions of illegal alien families. SIGN UP FOR THE SAVE ACT(H.R.4088) enforcement 'ONLY' law at www.numbersusa.com.

SIGN JUDICIAL WATCH, A LEGAL ORGANIZATIONS PETITION, TO RESCIND ALL 'SANCTUARY CITIES & STATES. www.sanctuarybusters.org / source. www.numbersusa.com to Petition the SAVE ACT. For immigration facts not propaganda or lies,

PASS THIS ON COPY, PASTE & DISTRIBUTE FREELY

Posted by Charles III at 10/16/08 3:13 p.m.

waiting for a customer of his to rat him out, the enquirer needs to know...

jobs without permits, cash payments unreported to the irs. bet his name isn't even joe.

Posted by unregistered user at 10/16/08 3:14 p.m.

If you're trying to create a balanced political and social system, it seems you have to be targeted with negative tone labels such as 'Socialist/Facist/Marxist/Liberal/Communist/Far Right/Dictator etc.' These are spat out with venom if you don't slavishly adhere to a particular political doctrine.

But what about finding the right solution for a modern civilization? Forget those square boxes of "Republican" or "Democrat", and try to focus on what you really want for your children and your society.

Is raising taxes SENSIBLY always a BAD thing? I don't believe so, indeed, it could be the best investment society could make into its own future, and before someone complains about welfare spongers, the current economic situation makes clear that abuse of a social system for financial gain happens under ALL political doctrines, and by people from all walks of life.

Surely it is right and proper that society as a whole attempts to
(1) Provide every child with a great education whatever the size of his/her parents wallets
(2) Provide excellent health care, no matter what's in a persons bank account
(3) Provide decent homes & help for the elderly when required
(4) Provide well funded public services (such as free libraries, parks, affordable well run public transport etc.)

I think it perfectly possible to have it all. Why can't we have these wonderful things built into our society AND retain a well REGULATED underlying free market economy? People could still make vast profits, still get highly rewarded for hard work and encouraged to have an entrepreneurial spirit, EVEN if higher taxes are required.

Is that Socialism and does it really matter if it is?

If people within communities are healthy, well educated, and don't feel disenfranchised, doesn't it benefit everyone?. There's less crime when people feel valued, they treat others with care and consideration.

Obama is the best hope for a balanced society in my view, I just hope he won't turn into yet another self serving politician.

Posted by ducttape2 at 10/16/08 3:21 p.m.

Posted by unregistered user at 10/16/08 3:02 p.m.

Mccain plans to "spread around the wealth around" by taxing the poor folks and giving tax breaks to the very wealthy oil companies

his pitch for middle america is only a pitch for their vote

Since more than half of Americans already don't pay taxes, how is it that they are so burdened?

Last check those companies employee people. This class warfare is straight out of the socialist play book. In order to push failed ideas, Obama needs to first make you believe that you can't do it with out him.

Posted by Liberal__Lion at 10/16/08 3:22 p.m.

wow this guy is a total fraud. Any plumber without a license who makes $250k after expenses is definitely not working or middle class.

Plus my understanding now is that only Republicans can be called Socialists now after this bailout fiasco.

Posted by Wyo at 10/16/08 3:28 p.m.

Joe "the plumber" is a Fraud?

Shocking, I tell ya', shocking!! Hmm... he's not a licensed plumber, is a Keating relative and has tax liens against his property?

Why does he care about how much taxes he'd have to pay? He doesn't pay them anyway.

Poor McCain, Grumpy McCranky just can't buy a Shill.

Posted by tevis at 10/16/08 3:36 p.m.

Posted by ducttape2 at 10/16/08 3:21 p.m.

Last check those companies employee people. This class warfare is straight out of the socialist play book. In order to push failed ideas, Obama needs to first make you believe that you can't do it with out him.
________________________________________________________
This is a laugher. Let's talk about failed ideas. Failed ideas are eight years of Republican rule. Failed ideas are deregulation on Wall Street. Failed ideas are trickle-down economics. Failed ideas are massive corporate and personal tax loopholes for the rich, while the little people pay their payroll tax. Failed ideas are paying $700 billion to irresponsible rogue bankers and turning your back on people who are being thrown out of your homes.

Failed ideas are Iraq, Abu Ghraib, and American unilateralism.

Failed ideas is four more years of McSame.

Failed ideas is what your extremist party and ideology is all about, my friend.

Americans have had enough failed ideas.

Posted by ducttape2 at 10/16/08 3:55 p.m.

Posted by Liberal__Lion at 10/16/08 3:22 p.m.

wow this guy is a total fraud. Any plumber without a license who makes $250k after expenses is definitely not working or middle class.

Plus my understanding now is that only Republicans can be called Socialists now after this bailout fiasco.

I think the current bailout was a complete fiasco and I am sick of it from both sides. I am convinced that we are screwed no matter who gets into office, it is just a preference on how to end up in basically the same crappy place. Obama hides his intent in plain sight and his flock bow on every command.

Part of me says just let Obama have it and watch him get his @ss handed to him. But with the filibuster at risk, I can't bear seeing the D's have full reign over the government. Just look at how good of a job they did with Fannie / Freddie and ACORN.

Posted by ducttape2 at 10/16/08 3:57 p.m.

The only hope for Obama are vote suppression tactics on the part of media and his campaign to provide a false aire of having this thing wrapped up.

Posted by thesmallprint at 10/16/08 4:07 p.m.

OK, I did a small amount of research. Apparently this guy wants to buy a plumbing company that makes about $250k gross. So after expenses, his taxes would almost certainly go down under Obama's tax plan.

No wonder this guy can't buy a business. Apparently, he doesn't understand the difference between gross income and taxable income after expenses.

Apparently, a lot of other people don't know either. Including nearly everyone who posted here.

Isn't this why the whole economy is tanking right now? In a deregulated financial market, people signed contracts they could not read. They tried to buy businesses they could not run. They wouldn't pay attorneys and accountants to look over the contracts.

Regulations are not socialism. They are necessary to protect people like this guy. He needs to stop thinking about the American dream and call the SBA for help.

Posted by iamericanperson at 10/16/08 4:22 p.m.

SURPRISE, SURPRISE! "Joe" (not a real name) plumber (not a real plumber) is revealed as yet another McCain gimmick (a.k.a. PALIN )that embarrasses the hard working public intent on teaching fiscal responsibility (not having a tax lien on your family home) to our kids (not impregnated by a high school drop out)!

Posted by LaissezFaire=Stupid at 10/16/08 4:34 p.m.

A lot of plumbers do make over $250K/yr. Unfortunately, they will shoulder more of this country's tax burden than I do... or fortunately, for me. I make about $10K a year and don't use 1/10th as many of this country's resources or benefits as Joe, so he pays more taxes than I do. Any more stupid questions, Republicans?

Posted by mevjr54 at 10/16/08 5:18 p.m.

As Warren Buffett has said, his secretary pays a higher percentage of income as taxes than he does. For the morons out there who do not understand this, it is because her income is "earned income" while most of his are dividends and capital gains, which are taxed at a lower rate. Thus, all the "joe the Plumbers" out there are getting screwed already. Buffett thinks this system is unfair and is willing to pay more in taxes. McCain won't do that, Obama will.

This country is ten TRILLION dollars in debt. we either need to increase revenue to begin paying down that debt or begin praying for hyperinflation to render that debt worthless. Of course, our retirement funds, what's left of them, would be pretty much worthless too. I'd rather pay a bit more in taxes.

Posted by ML8ML8 at 10/16/08 5:32 p.m.

I guess it's okay to spread the wealth around to your oil company friends and defense contractor buddies. Let's not forget the banks and Wall Street companies with their hands out because they sold a lot of high risk mortgage securities, but can't afford to pay the guarantees as contracted.

Our taxes fund all these corporate crooks, but we can't have a national health care plan. That wouldn't be good for the insurance industry. It's time we look out for our fellow Americans and provide affordable health care to all of our citizens.

Posted by unregistered user at 10/17/08 5:28 p.m.

joe asked a question and obama answered. His answer was the news not joe. who cares if he is even a plumber or not. The question was a good question. Obama showed his socialist view with is answer. Americans who heard that answer will think twice before they vote.

Posted by unregistered user at 10/19/08 3:06 p.m.

This is how relevant Joe the Plumber is: http://joe-the-plumber.com/ - forget it, McCain!

If the US government gave 1 million dollars to every American who has less than, say, $2m, it would cost around $300m. Wouldn't that solve the problem at a stroke? Not my idea, but someone who said it on TV the other night. It struck me as rather ingenious! Sure, there would be the wasters, but how many millions of folk would then order cars, new houses and all sorts of stuff which would give a massive boost to the flagging economy? I like it!

Maybe Barack will try it when he's President of the Unites States of America ... in a couple of months!

Posted by unregistered user at 10/21/08 8:22 a.m.

Amarillo's Joe the Plumber is a dead beat dad that walked out on his wife and kids after having an affair and owes a ton of back child support to his now ex-wife. Not this beloved Father of two the media portrays him as. It's a matter of public record--why don't you research THAT and report it?