Posted by unregistered user at 10/10/08 1:31 p.m.

I wonder how many hypocrites will attend that fiasco.

Another reason why organized religion sucks.

Posted by unregistered user at 10/10/08 1:42 p.m.

Or maybe there could be hypocrites seeking help. Open your mind a little.

Posted by USADutchie at 10/10/08 1:45 p.m.

I agree. Organized religion is so hypocritical and does not understand how people today live, work, think, or stay close to god.

Posted by unregistered user at 10/10/08 1:51 p.m.

How many hypocrites? I believe that people attending the events e.g. parents dealing with children are trying to deal with perceived issues, not because they have answers, otherwise, why attend? Tough to call them hypocrites when they're admitting something is an issue that has generally been avoided for years. I'm not attending, but hey why not have an open mind?

Posted by JustRoss at 10/10/08 1:54 p.m.

The only reason why porn is destructive is because it's viewed as destructive. There is nothing innate about it that makes it harmful view. But because people think it's destructive, they start hiding it and keeping it secret, and when people find it, they act like they've found a bomb, not a picture of naked people.

Posted by unregistered user at 10/10/08 2:19 p.m.

I have been to this church a few times before. Its amazing! The pastor is always super real with everyone and doesn't put on some "perfect" face. Its funny reading these responses when people who don't know him or have never been label them as hypocrites. The point of the event is admitting that we have a problem, not marching against porn or the industry itself. Its been a while since I've been there but after reading this...I'll be there Sunday for sure!

Posted by unregistered user at 10/10/08 2:21 p.m.

Or hey- maybe don't judge it before you've seen what it's really like. Show up on Sunday- it might surprise you.

Posted by stcrisby at 10/10/08 2:24 p.m.

The church has traditionally used the handle of sexuality to shame people and create an environment that is hostile to "uncontrolled sex."

Thus the "problem" of porn becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I'm not ashamed that I watch porn, neither is my wife. It adds to our sex life as a means to explore sexual fantasies. Mostly it's a shame that much of it is done poorly.

The churches are grasping at their traditional handles - it brings $$ into the collection plate and provides a ready made audience for people who frankly often can't keep a real job.

Bush et al just one a "community standards" case against a porn producer based in California, but tried in Florida because his porn went through servers based in FL. In other words, into the privately own computers of people watching porn in their bedrooms.

Posted by johnhanging at 10/10/08 2:27 p.m.

Yeah, organized religion sucks. They make you get up on sundays when you have a hangover. Now every Sunday I lay in bed, usually in a pool of vomit from the night before, read Penthouse Forum and pollute my being further.

Atheism is the best religion! I am my own god!

Posted by Hiltonbaas at 10/10/08 2:28 p.m.

Organized religion has destroyed far more lives than pornography ever will.

Posted by Tagger68 at 10/10/08 2:39 p.m.

Who is speaking? Larry Craig? Mark Foley? Richard Curtis?

Posted by unregistered user at 10/10/08 2:40 p.m.

Your assumption is dead wrong... the money is not going to the church at all... from the site....
"All proceeds go to The Esther Fund which helps porn stars who leave leave the industry by providing them with schooling, counseling, medical insurance, referrals to churches and pastors, mentoring, financial aid, and more."

I'm sure the church is probably paying to fly the XXXChurch speakers out and all that. This event costs money, and then they're giving more away to people who want out of that industry. Its amazing how angry some of you are... just because someone or some church hurt or offended you at one point... now they're all the same to you...

Sad. I think they call that prejudice....

Posted by unregistered user at 10/10/08 2:44 p.m.

wow, this is cool! about time churches talked about what is already mainstream. go eastside!

Posted by unregistered user at 10/10/08 2:51 p.m.

I wonder what Porn Pancakes taste like?

Posted by unregistered user at 10/10/08 3:12 p.m.

seattle produces, processes, or hosts over fifty percent of the world's internet pornography. in light of this,
you can see just how netr0pi( things are here. a systems approach would say an even like this is not nearly large enough in homoeostatic balance.

Posted by unregistered user at 10/10/08 3:14 p.m.

"I wonder what Porn Pancakes taste like?"

God only knows what they use for the batter.

Posted by me em at 10/10/08 3:22 p.m.

The internet is for corn.

Er...porn.

Perhaps they meant CORN pancakes...

Posted by unregistered user at 10/10/08 3:58 p.m.

"I wonder how many hypocrites will attend that fiasco."

...He who is without sin cast the first stone...
A whole lot of finger pointing going on here. People, at least acknowledge that someone is trying to get help. And please understand that there is a huge difference between "porn" and a "naked body" as art.

Posted by seashinn at 10/10/08 4:21 p.m.

I find it funny that the guy's last name who is anti-porn, is "Gross"

Posted by JustRoss at 10/10/08 4:28 p.m.

And please understand that there is a huge difference between "porn" and a "naked body" as art.

If there is such a huge difference, why is that even a supreme court justice had say "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it"?

Look, yes, some people maybe seeking help, and on a certain level, you do have to respect the combination of courage and humility to seek help for large problems. But if the problem they are seeking help for is the result of a completely artificial structure which deems looking at certain pictures "wrong," isn't it more helpful to break down the reason why they feel bad in the first place?

Porn is not alcohol or other drugs. "Consuming" porn does not alter your brain chemistry and compromise your judgment. You can't consume porn to the point where it starts causing long term damage to your body (no calluses or carpal tunnel jokes, please). You can't binge on porn and accidentally overdose and die.

Porn creates no more unrealistic images or expectations of women as sex objects than watching too many Leave it to Beaver reruns makes people believe that June Cleaver represents the ideal of American feminity.

Porn is a problem because organizations like XXXChurch tell people "you should feel guilty about watching this, it's dirty, nasty, and sinful. If your husband watches it, he's 'cheating' on you, and being dirty, nasty, and sinful."

Posted by unregistered user at 10/10/08 4:38 p.m.

JustRoss - Wow, you are truly misguided.

Porn is a huge problem. No woman who has had her husband cheat on her with a prostitute would agree with you. Yet over and over and over men say "porn" let me from a "fantasy" and into "action".

Ted Bundy, Geoffrey Dommer, and many others say PORN led them from "fantasy" to "action".

Don't delude yourself.

Porn is a HUGE problem for many many people.

Posted by unregistered user at 10/10/08 4:49 p.m.

wow monica, maybe you should go cover the breakfast.

Posted by unregistered user at 10/10/08 5:03 p.m.

I'm curious as to why people who want their individual freedoms respected (not least their right to view porn) then rail against "the church" as if it were one entity. It seems like this event is attempting to show people that the entertainment enjoyed by many on here actually does have a consequence and a darker side- and if that's so, then why criticize those who want to help people in the industry get out- should they choose to? That seems a bit odd to me, but is of course just my personal opinion.

Also, JustRoss, whilst I appreciate your analogy above, porn does alter the brain, like any choice we consistently make- our neural pathways are altering throughout life as we make decisions that become habitual and over time become harder to deviate from (which is why trying to change a habit is such a tricky business and takes time, no matter how badly you want to change).

Posted by Bellingman at 10/10/08 7:02 p.m.

Atheism is an absence of religion, not "another religion". And atheists don't believe they are god themselves--they don't need gods, period.

Posted by unregistered user at 10/10/08 10:40 p.m.

Are they going to be showing some Porn movies??
If so, I am so there!!!

Posted by unregistered user at 10/10/08 10:58 p.m.

Wow. Interesting.
Why NOT talk about this at church?
Way to go Eastlake!

Posted by JustRoss at 10/10/08 10:58 p.m.

Posted by unregistered user at 10/10/08 4:38 p.m.

JustRoss - Wow, you are truly misguided.

Porn is a huge problem. No woman who has had her husband cheat on her with a prostitute would agree with you. Yet over and over and over men say "porn" let me from a "fantasy" and into "action".

Ted Bundy, Geoffrey Dommer, and many others say PORN led them from "fantasy" to "action".

Don't delude yourself.

Porn is a HUGE problem for many many people.

Wow, unregistered user, are you truly ignorant. You are confusing correlation with causation, and are assuming the anecdotal is the universal. Before your statements about porn leading to cheating would have any relevance, you'd have to know how many people are looking at porn, what portion of them cheat, and what portion of cheaters have never looked at porn.

As far as your Dahmer/Bundy BS, 99.99% of people who look at porn never go on to commit any kind of sex crime, let alone murder. You could point to any other aspect of their upbringing that was remotely related to their crimes and blame it on that--learning knots in boy scouts, being taught to hunt as a child, etc. There is no necessary connection.

Your view of porn reduces men to beasts, denies free will, and rests heavily on the notion that we are solely input driven beings. That's your delusion.

Posted by unregistered user at 10/10/08 10:59 p.m.

Its ironic that all the close mindedness in this stream is coming from the same ones railing against "organized religion". This isn't a porn protest - this is a benefit for people trying to get out of the industry. Some people like being in the industry, some people don't. Why rail against people who want to help?

Posted by unregistered user at 10/10/08 11:05 p.m.

This person has obviously not been to Eastlake Church before:

"Posted by USADutchie at 10/10/08 1:45 p.m.
I agree. Organized religion is so hypocritical and does not understand how people today live, work, think, or stay close to god."

Posted by unregistered user at 10/10/08 11:44 p.m.

A friend and I went to the women's event tonight. It was informative, funny, entertaining (no porn films folks)and non-judgemental. I really enjoyed my time there and learned a lot from the people that spoke about thier own life experiences. From being there tonight, I got the impression that Eastlake and XXXchurch are trying to help and create awareness, not condemn. The people were authentic. In fact many of them were involved at one time in the porn industry which was interesting to hear about what happens behind the scenes. I would recommend the Porn and Pancakes to any of my guy friends and will be there on Sunday for sure! I got a really friendly vibe and didn't feel judged when I walked in the doors. Go Eastlake for trying something risky.

Posted by unregistered user at 10/11/08 6:42 a.m.

I am traveling this weekend and unable to attend but would if I were in town. It should be noted that all proceeds from the event go to the Esther Fund which helps porn stars who want to leave the industry by providing them with schooling, couseling, medical insurance, referrals to churches & pastors, mentoring, financial aid, and more......this is an open invitation to all from a church that really cares!

Posted by bdmike at 10/11/08 7:24 a.m.

Could someone help me out? Could you tell me EXACTLY where in the New Testament that Jesus forbids the viewing of people having sex?

You all seem to find self serving disciples to tell you what simply is not there. Jesus healed the sick, like the Roman Centurion's man servant. Yet, somehow, most "Christians" think "Christianity" forbids gay relationships.

Maybe if Christians read their bible from time to time, instead of leaning on "experts" and "pastors" to interpret it for them, they would be shocked to find Jesus was about healing the sick, and feeding the poor.
And....here is a big concept from Jesus...forgiveness and tolerance toward others. Yet powerful "Christians", exemplified Sarah Palin, have nothing but vile and intolerance toward people who are different than her, or share a different opinion. Where is the Sarah Palin health care plan? Where is her plan to lift people out of poverty? Yet, Christians like her love to use new laws to enforce their beliefs that have nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Porn has nothing to do with Christianity. It is just another stick that the temple priests use to keep the flock in line, paying their tithes, and electing their politicians. Sounds more like the pharisees to me.

Posted by Tenochtitlan at 10/11/08 9:09 a.m.

#195411 worte:
"All proceeds go to The Esther Fund which helps porn stars who leave leave the industry by providing them with schooling, counseling, medical insurance, referrals to churches and pastors, mentoring, financial aid, and more."

I boldfaced the scary part. This is how it always goes with churches. They don't do charity out of love. They do charity because Christianity figured out a long time ago that the weakest, least privileged people make the easiest converts. Charity swells the ranks and lets existing members feel smug. I cannot tell you how many times I have investigated a Christian charity and discovered that it tries to proselytize to the very people it purports to help. Sometimes that "help" is even conditional upon the recipient attending services or prayer sessions. It's so ghastly to prey on people like that.

As for the issue of porn itself...

#195490 wrote:
Porn is a huge problem. No woman who has had her husband cheat on her with a prostitute would agree with you. Yet over and over and over men say "porn" let me from a "fantasy" and into "action". Ted Bundy, Geoffrey Dommer, and many others say PORN led them from "fantasy" to "action".

You're crazy. Porn was what made Ted Bundy go psycho? You're as crazy as him.

Porn is an expression of people's sexuality. It's nothing that isn't in our imaginations already, and its prevalence is a testament to the fact that human beings are sexual creatures. Those who look at it, get something very obvious out of it.

Porn is only perceived as a problem because Christian dogma teaches that sexuality itself is a problem. The reason for this hostility is that sex is one of the Christian religion's major enemies. As history and common sense both show, unsuppressed sexual power will overwhelm religious faith, diminishing Christian control over society. This is especially true because Christianity is so ruthlessly anti-woman. In a Christian society where women have been stripped of all their rights and even their very humanity, sex is the only power they have left against men. It has to be tightly controlled, or everything else unravels. Sadly, that ruthlessness is is the tale of history.

Nowadays women's rights are on the rise. Not coincidentally, sexual empowerment is everywhere and Christianity is on the wane. Pornography is becoming more mainstream, and will continue to do so. The fact that some "liberal" Christian churches are finally addressing the issue more responsively than "PORN BAD!!" is a sign not of Christian adaptability, but of pornography's increasing acceptability.

My partner doesn't look at porn more than occasionally, but I do. I'm certainly not a sicko, and neither is he. The only thing porn has done for us is provide gratification. In this day and age I can say something like that in public, without facing the threat of being burned for witchcraft. That's not the mark of moral dissolution. That's the mark of a healthier society.

Posted by AuroraMan at 10/11/08 9:19 a.m.

bdmike -
You're absolutely right:
-Christians should read their Bibles on their own (too).
-Jesus was all about healing the sick and feeding the poor, which tragically much of (but not all of!) the church doesn't pay attention to.
-Jesus was all about forgiveness and gracious hospitality towards others. (I don't particularly like the word "tolerance" because it seems weak to me, like it is asking for the bare minimum. Additionally, it's a word that too often is used AGAINST Christians by people who aren't tolerant OF Christians).
-while many Christians in politics and all over the place are about power (as are so many non-Christians, I think you would agree), the way of Jesus is not about power or force or coercion... Rather, it is about humility, suffering, sacrifice - even death.

But I would also answer your comments by pointing to something that Jesus said, "You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell." (Matthew 5.27-30)

Pretty serious words from Jesus, who, as you said, is indeed forgiving and "tolerant". Basically, in this New Testament passage (as requested), Jesus is quoting an Old Testament law and expanding it. In other words, it's not just about the act of adultery, it's bigger - it's about the adultery that goes on in a person's heart - the unfaithfulness to one's partner, the objectifying of another human being for one's own sexual pleasure. Jesus seems to be drawing a direct connection between what the eye sees and the condition of one's heart.

Those are my thoughts, but I'd be curious to hear your interpretation of this passage.

Posted by checkReality at 10/11/08 11:11 a.m.

If people want to get out of the porn industry, and there is no proselytizing or the intent to require any religious observance or acknowledgment, fine. However, their premises are false. Just because they are superfically non-judgemental, does not mean the very purpose of this is not judgemental. This is how people fall into cults, and fundumentalist sect religion.

There are other non-religous groups who are out there that support sex workers who feel trapped. This group pretty warped, and they are NOT trained professional counselors, just mis-representing themselves to futher their own agenda and convert those who they consdier sinners.

This is pure judgmental morality with a happy face in front. The weak-minded and despirate are easy prey for it.

Posted by You Know Who I Am at 10/11/08 11:36 a.m.

"Maybe if Christians read their bible from time to time, instead of leaning on "experts" and "pastors" to interpret it for them, they would be shocked to find Jesus was about healing the sick, and feeding the poor."

I'm shocked that no one has chimed in yet that homosexuality/"sex addiction" are "diseases"........

Posted by unregistered user at 10/11/08 1:45 p.m.

My SEX ADDICTION has led me to engage in behaviors that have nearly gotten me fired, arrested and divorced.

I tried to stop the illegal behavior and just resort to porn once in a while to relieve my urges, but I found that my pornography use always seemed to lead me to engage in other behaviors that I had sworn off (strip clubs, massage parlors, voyeurism, exposing, etc.)

I'm not saying that porn is bad for everyone, but for a sex addict using pornography is a pretty bad idea. I also have nothing against drinking or gambling or chocolate cake. But if you're an alcoholic or gambling or food addict I believe using your "drug of choice" will eventually kill you.

For me, the problem isn't pornography, it's that something abnormal happens in my brain when I start to sexualize people or things. I've tried countless times to just look at women in lingerie or swimsuits to take the edge off, but this inevitably leads me to sitting at the computer at 3:00 am looking at hard core SM video. And shortly thereafter I'm back out on the street doing things that will get me arrested.

Thankfully I've found help in a fellowship called "sexaholics anonymous." If I can stay sober, one day at a time, I'll have 14 months of sobriety from my "bottom line" sexual behaviors next Tuesday. This is a big deal for me. I haven't been able to stay sober for more than a month or two in the last 40 years of "acting out."

If you're not a sex addict, live it up! Enjoy your god-given libido. But if your sexual thoughts or behaviors have caused you problems with jobs, relationships and the police and if you find that you can't stop these behaviors in the face of all this unmanageability, perhaps you're a sex addict. And if so there's help out there.

Best of luck

Posted by CraigPT at 10/11/08 1:52 p.m.

A lot of judgemental comments coming, surprisingly, from the anti-church group. Interesting...I always thought the church was the judgemental group. These guys are not judging anyone who is looking at porn; they just want to have an open discussion about what is going on. Anyone see a problem with that?

Posted by unregistered user at 10/11/08 2:39 p.m.

I was at the event today and it opened my eyes! Personally, I know the painful effects porn has had on me, but, I never considered the hurt and pain of the families of these people, who are in this industry. But, don't take my word for it. Here is just an example, if you are interested in reading this: http://www.thoughtquotient.com/ex-porn-stars-speak-out/.

Posted by unregistered user at 10/11/08 5:18 p.m.

cool coverage last night on channel 4. i was very intrigued. im agnostic, but after reading this thread... these Christians sound like more fun to hang with than the angry people sounding off here who "like" porn... check it out for yourself on Komo 4's website

Posted by unregistered user at 10/12/08 8:54 a.m.

stcrisby - Funny how you speak for you wife about how it "adds to our sex life." I think you should say it adds to your own sex life. The only one bringing money to a collection plate is you by watching porn. Your hard earned dollars go into an industry that exploits and degrades women all for your "pleasure." Time to come out of fantasy and back to reality bro!

Posted by unregistered user at 10/12/08 9:23 a.m.

bdmike "Could someone help me out? Could you tell me EXACTLY where in the New Testament that Jesus forbids the viewing of people having sex?"

Matthew 5:28
"But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

Looking at porn without lusting for the sex on the screen? Impossible, so hope that answers your question.

"You all seem to find self serving disciples to tell you what simply is not there. Jesus healed the sick, like the Roman Centurion's man servant. Yet, somehow, most "Christians" think "Christianity" forbids gay relationships."

I've never read the gay version of the bible and don't think there is one as a matter of fact. Do some research on the topic before you make stuff up to justify your lifestyle. Since when does having a male servant in Biblical context mean he was homosexual? Only in your mind right?

Was Jeffrey in the Fresh Prince of Bell-Air having and affair with Will Smith and Carlton too?

How do you explain the account of Sodom and Gammorah?

Posted by unregistered user at 10/12/08 9:49 a.m.

I go to this church, and if you have too, you would know that it is in no way a typical, narrow-minded, condemning organization like so many others. You really can't say anything against it untill you have been there yourself... it's definitely NOT a typical church!!! It's very down-to-earth and I DARE you to go try it out before you speak negatively about it!

Posted by 00100011 at 10/12/08 3:14 p.m.

Jesus was a pornstar.

Posted by unregistered user at 10/12/08 9:59 p.m.

Another reason, I'm glad I'm gay... my partner and I enjoy porn together and separately within the confines of a monogamous relationship. Gay couples don't seem to have the same ridiculous hangups about this that many straight people do.

Posted by unregistered user at 10/12/08 11:10 p.m.

It's stupid that agnostics (my peeps!) criticize good people who are trying to bring much needed attention to the sex industry & the effects of porn addiction. Some of the porn people pay to look at are made with human sex slaves who are bought & sold like animals, and are forced against their will to get multiple abortions or even watch helplessly as their pimps murder their newborn babies. Kudos, Eastlake!

Posted by unregistered user at 10/12/08 11:20 p.m.

Gee, let's see, listen to a gay guy who watches lots of porn, or a church with a good message... What ever happened to the days when gays were feminists? It doesn't sound like you care too much about women's OR human rights.......

Posted by unregistered user at 10/13/08 8:47 a.m.

I've never been to a church that didn't have a hidden agenda in what they, or their guests preach, and preaching CAN include casual conversation about any topic. Over the years I've tried many churches / religions, and I continue to walk away discouraged. It's all about THEIR doctrine, and collection plate, and they're all so damn hypocritical. Organised religion sucks! The best religion is believing in yourself.

Posted by unregistered user at 10/13/08 9:11 a.m.

New song from Everclear - free download at: www.everclearonline.com This song gives us all something to think about...

"Jesus Christ didn't have blue eyes or blond hair
He looked just like all those people that you want to kill
Spin your hell into a heaven you can sell
Make it look like California with a bible belt
Jesus didn't look like the boy next door
Unless you live in Palestine
I wonder what you mean by the golden rule
I think it is a scary play on words
I wonder what they taught you back in Sunday school

I bet you think of him
As a nice clean long haired Republican, nah
He would be all locked up in Guantanamo Bay
If he were alive today
He would have been a revolutionary
Wanted by the CIA

I picture him in all the wrong places
Finding diamonds in the dirt
A star of David tattoo
And a Che t-shirt
Jesus Christ was a left wing radical Jew
Murdered by people like you

If Jesus was a Democrat like the bible says he was
I don't think he's going to want to take the blame
For all the awful things you say and do in his name

If Jesus was alive he would be sad to see
That it is no different than it used to be
Someday he's going to call you out
I am pretty god damned sure ......
He is going to be angry
He is going to be angry

You want to know what I think?.......

I think Jesus would have been a card carrying liberal
If he was a young man born in the USA

He would not be "fiscally conservative"
And he wouldn't vote for John McCain
All those so called Christians that you see on TV
Maybe they scare Jesus like they scare me
Kick you the hell out of my temple too
Too many elephants in the room

If Jesus was a Democrat like the bible says he was
I don't think he's going to want to take the blame
For all the awful things you people do and say in his name

If Jesus was alive today he would be sad to see
That it is no different than it used to be
Someday he's going to call you out
I am pretty god damned sure......
He is going to be....mad
He is going to be angry
He is going to be....mad
He is going to be....mad

You say Jesus loves the little children
And I say I know that's true
I say he loves all the Muslims and the Jews
All the addicts and the porn stars too
You say Jesus died to save us all from a fiery hell
I say Jesus died to save us
Save us from ourselves
Will you save me from myself?

If Jesus was a liberal like the red letters say he was
I know he would have big love for all the killers and the racists
And the bullies in this world

If Jesus was alive today
And you had a chance to meet him face to face
I'm pretty God-damned sure that you and your friends
Would find some way to kill him all over again
You would kill him all over again
Again and again and again
Just like you always do
You do just what you always do"
-Everclear

Posted by unregistered user at 10/13/08 9:34 a.m.

I am new to Eastlake Community Church I attended both The Porn and Pasteries event as well as Porn Sunday.

The events were held to shed a light on sex addiction in our congregation topping the list Porn. This was not billed as a Anti-Porn event it was to show how wide spread the problem is in our congregation and that we are not afraid to talk about and show support to those who are in need of help and those already recovering from the addictions. Do you know that the porn industry personally invites the triple x Church to all of it's trade shows b/c they believe in the importance of sending this message of recovery?

Our church promotes love and tolerance Jeses does love the porn stars, the drug addicts, and any other person struggling to have a relationship with the Lord. Please feel welcome to attend our service you just may be surprised... if not we will gladly refund your misery. Come one come all

I for one am so proud of my church. I started attending about four months ago and became a member just last month. God Bless

Posted by unregistered user at 10/13/08 1:44 p.m.

I attended this sunday, as i have for many sundays, and as always i was blown away by the non-judgemental way this message was presented. Every week the Pastor, Ryan Meeks, stands up and says he's glad that everyone is there regardless of what they believe. He has said over and over that those who disagree with him are still welcome.
The bottom line is that true christianity is a message of hope and love. We are not here to condemn and none of us are perfect. Eastlake Community Church believes that everyone has to find their own way and each person has to make their own choice. But the message remains the same...God loves us and wants to have a relationship with us, it is up to each person to accept that or not.
I would challenge each person who has a distaste for organized religion to come, just one weekend, and see what you think. I bet you'll be suprised..

Oh, and p.s. The cost of the seminars went to the Esther Fund, not to the church.

Posted by beth.anderson at 10/13/08 3:02 p.m.

I once got to interview Craig Gross, and his co-founder (back in the day) for a book about young people who were making a difference in the church. I have a lot of respect for both of them- not only have they addressed some of the issues with porn, but they've also made a lot of inroads in reaching out to those involved in the making of it. I remember one of them telling me a story about how they befriended a director and got his assistance making a public service announcement aimed at keeping children away from porn. Certainly that was one message everyone could agree with across the board, and I'm glad that these guys are willing to get in there and hang out with the directors and stars and other business people whom most of the church would shudder to think about reaching out to. In my opinion, they're doing a lot better about being non-judgmental and addressing issues the church is afraid to talk about in a healthy way. I hope they keep their ministry up, and I hope it keeps helping people.

Posted by unregistered user at 10/13/08 3:03 p.m.

I hesitate to throw another log on the bonfire of the inanities,here,but I'm an classic "village idiot".
One thing I picked up from the "beats"in the '50's/'60's of the last century,before the erronious Millennium panic:
"Do what thou(true)Will(t)
Shall be the Whole of the Law"-
Aleister(The Beast)Croweley.
When the cold war raged,many returning G.I. vets turned to self-enlightenment.:ex:Zen,Taoism,Sufi'ism.
This is why,the "Supremes"couldn't ban Nekkid Art such as,[ex.here-?]statues sans fig leaf.
The True path should include feel-good thoughts that resist puritan mind control by "believer"fanatics.
Remember,spirit doesn't always go hand-in-hand with "churchianity".
I'm not a glib writer,so bear with me,here.
"R"
[RandiO088(at)aim.Com]