Posted by unregistered user at 8/6/08 8:44 p.m.

Ah yes, @162252. Take what was obviously a horrible accident and try and make it about critical mass. Charming.

Posted by unregistered user at 8/6/08 8:46 p.m.

I heard a boom and I too thought someone was shot. This is horrible.

Posted by quillet at 8/6/08 8:56 p.m.

According to KOMO, the fellow piloting the trike (not a bike) was screaming as he entered the intersection, as if he'd lost control of the pedicab. They say that police have confirmed that there was an equipment failure on the pedicab.

It's tragic, but equipment failures do happen. This is not a story about delinquent cyclists or testosterone-addled cagers.

Posted by unregistered user at 8/6/08 8:56 p.m.

Are you people serious? This appears to have been an A-C-C-I-D-E-N-T. Can we express some sensitivity towards the deceased and his family? I encourage you all to read the whole article and make sure you consider the background and context in which you make your comments (think before you write).

To Mr. fleming, if you read the article in its entirety, you should have noticed this line, "...the pedicab, which was carrying the 60-year-old and his wife, was going downhill on Cedar Street approaching Western Avenue when it may have had an equipment failure." What you wrote is a horrible assumption.

It's easy to be critical, it takes more effort to show compassion. I urge us all to have more compassion.

Posted by unregistered user at 8/6/08 9:03 p.m.

This thing is a sort of rickshaw with bicycle pedals, right? Are there any safety requirements at all regarding carrying paying passengers in it, such as that the passengers must wear bicycle helmets? Do the passengers have seat belts and shoulder harnesses? A commercial taxi fleet of these would seem to need a non-trivial amount of insurance because of their injury-friendly design.

Posted by A Lonely Centrist at 8/6/08 9:36 p.m.

You folks would be screaming for blood if it was a taxi, plane, bus, or ferry equipment failure resulting in death.

Someone was hired to convey a person from point A to point B. Someone failed to do so, resulting in the death of the person who contracted the services.

And there is NO legal difference.

Posted by Panzo at 8/6/08 9:43 p.m.

Crap! I see that pedicab driver every day! What a horrible accident!

Sympathies to the dead man's family.

Posted by unregistered user at 8/6/08 10:11 p.m.

Life is so fragile....accident do happens, but use common sense people...

Posted by unregistered user at 8/6/08 10:17 p.m.

Well, Ted Fleming, first you proved that you didn't read the story, then you made a comment that seems even more insensitive given what the story said and the fact that a man died.

Real smooth...

Posted by bloggerdogger at 8/6/08 10:18 p.m.

This is right outside my house. It's a steep hill, no place for a pedicab. Pedicabs belong in Pioneer Square, not 1st, or Western. Sounds like pedi-man lost his way. That is terrible. What a wierd way to go. My thoughts are with him. I hope his family finds their way through this tough time with some comfort. My condolences as well.

Posted by DFC at 8/6/08 10:31 p.m.

My condolences to everyone involved. Ouch!

I do not think I would want to be running a loaded pedicab down Cedar St. Right there. Ouch!

Posted by unregistered user at 8/6/08 11:06 p.m.

Sad for all parties involved. I've talked with a couple of pedicab drivers a few times; the last one I talked to told me the pedicabs weigh about 80-85lbs alone and they're fixed-gear bikes. While I respect the obvious athleticism the pedicab operators have, I've also seen the vast majority of them completely disobey traffic law, and even at nighttime the majority of them have no lights (fore or aft) or safety equipment.

I hope some improvements can be made and lessons learned from this sad tragedy.

Posted by unregistered user at 8/6/08 11:29 p.m.

I live in the condo building next to this accident scene. I saw the man taken out from underneath the van. Then his wife was taken over to him, on a stretcher. Then she was taken into Medic One, and he was taken out covered by a sheet. Do not speculate. Simply appreciate the life you have for now. It may be gone tomorrow.

Posted by Worldwide Citizen at 8/6/08 11:30 p.m.

I'm looking at the picture of the overturned pedi-cab.
It's a spindly little thing.
Maybe 400 pounds of people in it, send it down a hill, and people wonder why there was an accident ?

These things are cute and all, but since they are
now commercial vehicles, there should be
increased safety standards to be met.
Maybe dual chains, dual brakes, things like that.
These wouldn't be all that expensive considering
what happens when everything lets loose.

Posted by unregistered user at 8/6/08 11:36 p.m.

I wonder if the pedicab brake cable snapped. If it only had single front wheel brake because it was a trike, a snapped brake cable would be consistent with the events described. In that situation, the pedicab driveers options on a steep hill are turning perpendicular to the hill and most likely rolling the pedicab or trying a fred flintstone stop with his feet on the ground. In any case, very unfortunate.

Posted by unregistered user at 8/6/08 11:41 p.m.

I didn't know they were fixed gear, in that case, assuming they also have a front brake, then you would need both the chain and the brake cable to snap at the same time, which seems pretty unlikely. Can anyone see if the chain is still on in the picture above?

Posted by unregistered user at 8/7/08 1:52 a.m.

I also live on this corner. The witnesses I huddled with immediately after the accident said the people on the pedicab were screaming for their lives at the people on the sidewalk to stop the traffic on western ave. They knew they could not stop.

It is difficult to imagine a worse predicament to find yourself in: 630pm on a weekday, in the back of a pedicab with no brakes, heading down cedar which is the steepest hill in belltown in my book, approaching a totally blind intersection, then running a red light across western ave which has the prevailing speed limit of I-5. Covering the intersection of western and cedar with flowers tomorrow would be appropriate for this kind of tragic circumstance.

Welcome to the Belltown, the urban density "walkable neighborhood" with a freeway running through its center... except this freeway is western ave, with intersections, traffic lights, bikes, dogs, tourists, children, double semi trailer petroleum trucks, and no speed limit. Who needs a tunnel? Let's route the 50+ mph heavy industrial traffic through our prized double-decker highway that will collapse on us in the next earthquake, then through the densest residential population center in the state, and finally through the olympic sculpture park, like any other world class city would.

Posted by tonyo206 at 8/7/08 5:18 a.m.

everything changes
everything is connected
pay attention now

Posted by Ted Fleming at 8/7/08 7:25 a.m.

What was a pedicab doing on the "steepest hill in Belltown"? Equipment failure? Or, operator error?

Was this an accident? Or negligence?

Posted by Trauma_Hound at 8/7/08 8:01 a.m.

Cedar is one hell of a steep grade where he was at, you have to have really good brakes.

Posted by 7Null_Seven at 8/7/08 9:06 a.m.

Ted, honestly man, save the blame game for another time. You're unlikely to find anyone to back your play on this, and it really does make you appear to be a spiteful hater who needs to put people down to explain a tragedy. The public stoning of an injured man you're attempting to incite here is really unbecoming.

Posted by Boyerbl at 8/7/08 9:35 a.m.

A Pedicab is the same as a 3 wheeled bike. 2 passengers and a driver, point them down one of Seattle's hills near the waterfront I am not surprised there was some form of brake failure. Even a motorcycle with 3 passengers going down one of Seattle steep hills would have some form of trouble.

Posted by unregistered user at 8/7/08 9:51 a.m.

Was the pedicab driver licensed and insured? I would expect a wrongful death lawsuit to follow.

Posted by NickHughes at 8/7/08 9:57 a.m.

I don't know what kind of brakes are on a pedicab, but I hope they are more than those used on bicycles. There is a LOT of weight to consider - 3 people plus the equipment. They should require hydraulic disc brakes to be safe, and avid steep hills in any case. In the very least, this is a case of bad judgement to use the downhill approach to go anywhere.

Posted by kingmob at 8/7/08 11:15 a.m.

Condolences to all involved. This is terrible.

That whole street (Western) is a nightmare. The drivers drive like maniacs. Not saying the van was doing that. Sounds like a real accident. But you take your life in your own hands crossing anywhere along there, crosswalk or not. The cops are as bad as any of the other drivers. The drivers in this city suck, whether they be on a bike or in a car.

Posted by unregistered user at 8/7/08 12:35 p.m.

The cabs are single-speed, not fixed gear. They have one break which you stomp on with your foot. The guy shouldn't have been going down a hill that steep.

Posted by 7Null_Seven at 8/7/08 1:01 p.m.

There seems to be a lot of "this guy shouldn't have been going downhill" in these comments. I've seen pedicabs stopped at intersections facing downhill, and I presume they got there by coming downslope. So it seems that under normal circumstances, it is possible to stop one of these things with its normal braking system. An automobile weighs a lot more than a pedicab. Somehow I doubt that we'd be seriously saying that cars shouldn't drive down hills if the brakes on one failed one day.

Aside: The story on this in the Times has a different account of what happened, stating the pedicab hit the van first, overturned, and then was struck by the scooter.

Posted by unregistered user at 8/7/08 1:38 p.m.

"So it seems that under normal circumstances, it is possible to stop one of these things with its normal braking system"

Unfortunately, these were not NORMAL circumstances. Witness accounts say there was alot of weight on the pedicab.

Posted by unregistered user at 8/7/08 3:53 p.m.

Was the pedicab driver licensed and insured? I would expect a wrongful death lawsuit to follow.

I would not expect such a suit. Then again, I'm a reasonable person.

A tragic reminder that we all need to be alert and aware of our options out of a bad situation.

Posted by D_P at 8/7/08 8:04 p.m.

@7Null_Seven: "I've seen pedicabs stopped at intersections facing downhill, and I presume they got there by coming downslope. So it seems that under normal circumstances, it is possible to stop one of these things with its normal braking system. An automobile weighs a lot more than a pedicab. Somehow I doubt that we'd be seriously saying that cars shouldn't drive down hills if the brakes on one failed one day."

I don't think that is the argument. Cars have a powered hydraulic power system to operate their multiply redundant brakes (including a system that is independent of the hydraulic system). This is not even close to the situation that a pedicab has with a wire operated brake with no redundancy. I think it is more than reasonable to ask why a vehicle with this type of system is going down a very steep hill.

Posted by unregistered user at 8/7/08 8:18 p.m.

Was the pedicab driver insured?

Posted by unregistered user at 8/8/08 4:46 a.m.

This was my friend that was killed in this accident. I've know him for 35 years. He was a very funny, warm, highly intelligent man with 4 children. His wife still lays in a hospital bed thousands of miles from home. We were all coming to Seattle to join our friends for a cruise to Alaska. Something we've been planning for 1 1/2 years. Vacations can be rescheduled but the loss of our dear friend is something we'll all carry with us for the rest of our lives.

Posted by Ted Fleming at 8/8/08 5:03 a.m.

Posted by 7Null_Seven at 8/7/08 1:01 p.m.

"There seems to be a lot of "this guy shouldn't have been going downhill" in these comments."

Some of those comments are coming from the owner of the pedicab company the driver worked for.

Posted by unregistered user at 8/8/08 6:24 a.m.

The man killed was a good friend of my step sisters. This is a tragic accident. They were supposed to be on vacation...making memories. Their lives are forever changed. My heart aches for all the family's involved. Please lift all of them up in your prayers.

Posted by unregistered user at 8/8/08 12:17 p.m.

A spokesman Alex Fryer "Those bikes should not be out on the streets of Seattle providing public transportation; they're toys,"

A toy, A toy that has been used for over a hundred years for public transportation.

13 people were killed in a bus accident yesterday, did they know that when they were going to loose there lives when getting on the bus. NO. it was a choice they made and an accident happened.

No one should be pointing fingers.

We should take everything we can from this horrible accident and educate ourselves so we can prevent things like this from happening again.

Posted by unregistered user at 8/8/08 1:40 p.m.

Ex-Pedicab driver-
Cascadia cabs don't prohibit or warn you of which hills to stay away from. Instead they incourage you to go where the customer requests and to use caution and good judgement. This leaves all fault to the rider and makes you feel very alone out there. Their training does not include any warnings of weight or load limits. They do not even remind you that you can turn down a fare if you feel like it. The amount of cabs there are at the moment means less cash for the riders forcing them to perform stunts they wouldn't normally do. It's like a frenzy out there, and every cab driver will tell you that.
The owner of the company said that there was no mechanical failure, and I don't believe him. I've never met him. He's not around. His word is the word of the managers that actually ride those cabs, and I happen to know that they did service the bikes just prior to the accident. That does not mean that there was no mechanical failure. Those bikes are rickidy as heck, and it could've been something unnavoidable.
Thanks

Posted by unregistered user at 8/8/08 2:22 p.m.

ex pedicab driver... below

How do you know they didnt service the bikes? were you there?

Posted by unregistered user at 8/9/08 10:45 a.m.

They never service the brakes, you are expected to fix those yourself. There's only two mechanics and they aren't paid enough and sometimes aren't even paid. They put too many cabs out and no one makes any money so it's a crazy mad-grab for whatever buck you can make. It was the kid's first day, and I feel sorry for him just as much as the deceased and his family. I doubt anyone told him not to go down hills. The company definitely does not do extensive training. They just give you one little half hour (at the most) test ride and then you are expected to know what you're doing. It's bullshit. This company is guilty of negligence in my opinion. It was started only a year ago and it is no coincidence that the first fatal crash in Seattle happened with this company -- after at least 40 years of pedicabs in this city. Their bad practices finally caught up to them and I hope that they don't survive the impending legal battle.

Posted by unregistered user at 8/9/08 8:47 p.m.

Omg, I feel SO bad for the family of the people who were on the pedicab. I was staying at the Marriott across from the cruise dock and saw the medics and police going to the scene. I could not help but constantly think of the family and the wife who were to board that ship that next day to Alaska Seeing that ship they should have been on, right outside my window view all day was indeed sad.

Two weeks ago my family and I were in San Diego for a cruise and we took a pedicab on a 1/2 hour city site tour, driven by a young driver who was from Turkey, who had only been on the job for 3 weeks. Athletic, and very kind as he was, I was concerned for our safety. I was taking pictures of the sights, as the driver was weaving in and out of traffic and one of my photos shows us nearly getting hit by oncoming traffic as the driver evidently dismissed the road rules. I was horrified and ever so glad to get off that bike. It was scary, dangerous and expensive. $80 for that ride, and I never felt safe once. I can't imagine adding steep down hill grades to that mix. It's just tragic. I will definately be thinking of that family and the poor driver in my prayers. He's got to live with that awful memory in his mind as well. Have mercy on him, he surely did not want to kill anyone.

Posted by unregistered user at 8/11/08 5:39 p.m.

The way i see it it was a lapse in judgment and last minute choice he made to turn down a very steep hill with two not so small people in tow..on the specific hill it happened its very steep most people even walk there bikes and being as the two riders werent small people even as they yelled for him not to go that way the breaks wouldnt hold he thought he knew best and did it any way.. the nature of an accident is that even with all precautions it still happens you cant stop it or change just learn and move on.hopefully the city will make some efforts as to say which roads/hills might be better off limits and to maybe put some sort of weight limit on the cabs them selfs i dont care who you are goin down a larg steep hill with more then 600lbs behind a small break isnt gonna cut it.. but hey guess its my opinion.

Posted by unregistered user at 8/12/08 5:05 p.m.

the best trained driver makes a choice. to take a route. and then the split second he is given to make a choice!!! some will freeze! some will hit the wall or a stationery anything. my heart goes out to all involved..better training and better equiment is needed that is the least we can offer the family..however there will still come that instant when you have to make a choice.to stop by any means.pedicabs are wanted and needed. slower traffic in tourist areas also needed .at the end of the day i see this has a very heartbreaking accident..does any man really know what he would have done in those final seconds..

Posted by unregistered user at 8/13/08 2:06 p.m.

Does anyone know about the cyclist that crashed on Queen Anne hill? I saw him after the crash and watched him get taken away. His friend was looking around the hill Monday night and said he was still unconcious...just wanted to know how he was...