Posted by GHK at 10/24/07 6:11 p.m.

This is incorrect. Redfin reviews employee performance every October. In Seattle, we asked one employee to leave as a result of this review.

The company has hired three other people already in the month of October, so we do not believe there are any fundamental problems with our business.

Glenn Kelman
CEO, Redfin

Posted by buddhabrad at 10/24/07 7:56 p.m.

Thanks for the correction Glenn.

Also, while posting some jobs for my business on Craigslist today, I noticed that Zillow had 7 new jobs posted.

Perhaps this growth in the online real estate world will prop up our local market after all....

(Couldn't pass up the opportunity to point out the irony.)

Posted by Kary L. Krismer at 10/24/07 8:18 p.m.

Redfin has it's place.

For one, buyers who think they'd be better off being basically unrepresented, and getting a reduced price for being such (as is being discussed in my post on Agency) would be well advised to go to Redfin rather than to approach a listing agent about reducing their commission.

It's also good for when you have a client that insists on listing a property for too high of a price. After the rebate it might be reasonable to a Redfin client.

Posted by Debra Sinick at 10/24/07 9:32 p.m.

Kary,

I think your point of view is well taken. I was merely passing along information I had heard.

There is room for different business models in real estate.

Posted by Debra Sinick at 10/24/07 9:34 p.m.

By the way, Buddhabrad,

Zillow's model is vastly different from Redfin's. Zillow is more of an information resource, but I am sure you know that.

Posted by Larry K Cragun at 10/25/07 9:29 a.m.

Interestingly, neither company is profitable, perhaps never will be. Foxtons beat them to the marketplace and found out there is a limit to how long you can operate on a million here and 20 million there down the tube.

Posted by GHK at 10/25/07 9:30 a.m.

Hi there,

Why do you claim that Redfin clients are basically unrepresented? It would come as a surprise to the more than 50 people we employ in customer service, or the 1,000-odd customers who have praised our representation.

You should also know that Redfin won't list a property without performing a comparative market analysis to ensure that the seller has priced his or her property appropriately; it is a practice we have belatedly embraced but embraced nonetheless.

I'm sure we make mistakes. And of course the customer plays a more active role in our model, though we think this tends to lead to www.redfin.com/stingray/do/redfin-advant
age. Sometimes your criticism of Redfin just seems driven by your own agenda rather than a careful assessment of the situation as it really is.

And I ask not to spark an argument, but because we are curious about how to improve our relations with our colleagues in the industry. Sometimes we don't feel like we get a fair shake.
Regards, Glenn

Posted by Mack McCoy at 10/25/07 9:54 a.m.

Oh, please; Glenn, you get your message heard far in excess of your market share.

So forgive me, personally, if I bristle at the idea that I have an "agenda," and that you're somehow a victim not getting all of the calls.

My recollection of David wasn't the one with $20,000,000 in backing, facing us Goliaths making, well, I guess that's the thing. We're actually making a little money.

Anyway, sorry that you feel that way, too. We often feel like we don't get a fair shake on the forums you sponsor. C'est la vie, eh?

Posted by buddhabrad at 10/25/07 10:44 a.m.

Thus the beauty of the internet...

Post a rumor. It gets shot down. Then a debate is started, giving the original target of the rumor even more attention and a larger voice.

Well done.

Posted by Larry K Cragun at 10/25/07 10:57 a.m.

Yes Buddhabrad but did we learn anything?

Posted by Mack McCoy at 10/25/07 11:06 a.m.

No, we'll do it again.

Posted by Kary L. Krismer at 10/25/07 2:19 p.m.

GHK wrote: "Why do you claim that Redfin clients are basically unrepresented? It would come as a surprise to the more than 50 people we employ in customer service, or the 1,000-odd customers who have praised our representation.

You should also know that Redfin won't list a property without performing a comparative market analysis to ensure that the seller has priced his or her property appropriately; it is a practice we have belatedly embraced but embraced nonetheless."

I thought I was being nice with that post, and I referred to buyers who thought they'd be better off basically unrepresented--I didn't claim that a Redfin client was basically unrepresented. But in any case there is a continuum. Some clients want full representation, some none. Redfin is in-between somewhere..

I know Redfin for a fee will show people around, but I think mainly they rely on the clients to find their own properties, view the properties they select, etc. Unlike, however, a buyer approaching a listing agent, they would have someone to actually write up the offer on their behalf, which is an improvement.

What is the current status of Redfin showing up for inspections, etc.?

Posted by Marce Branniff at 10/25/07 3:32 p.m.

Hi Kary.

I thought I would chime in to answer your question about Redfin attending inspections. I've been with the Redfin field team since last November, and part of my job is to coordinate the schedules of our agents. We always have an agent present for our clients' inspections.

Side note: this is my first blog post. Yay me.

Posted by buddhabrad at 10/25/07 5:41 p.m.

It's not what new technology CAN'T do. It's what it CAN do.

It seems to me that the traditional agents have lots of opinions about this newfangled technology called Redfin.

Yet none of them appear to have actually done the legwork to find out for themselves what Redfin is really all about.

How can one stay relevant in the marketplace when they don't know what the competitors are doing?

Posted by Marlow Harris at 10/25/07 5:50 p.m.

Welcome Marce!

We love to have new voices join the conversation.

Thanks for sharing and visit often. The more views and opinions we have here, the more helpful we are to each other and to the general public.

Posted by buddhabrad at 10/25/07 5:52 p.m.

What I learned on this thread:
1) I actually visited the redfin site. (I even found a listing that I'm going to keep an eye on...)
2) Company CEOs come off pretty credible when they respond to criticism factually and without contempt.
3) Traditional agents will jump at the chance to poke at their competitors. Sometimes at the risk of being inaccurate.

Also, a prediction: Someone will bristle at my notion that Redfin is actually a competitor to the traditional agent format. They'll chime in with an "apples and oranges" comment, and then their head will explode.

Posted by Larry K Cragun at 10/25/07 6:13 p.m.

Buddabrad I expect you to have a love affair with Redfin. You should ask to meet their CEO. Mr Kelman is one of the most endearing and charming men you will ever meet. He makes you want to root for him.

I have had experience with their clients. They aren't too up front in their intentions. The experience I have had is they are pretty willing to do a little deception. After all, what the heck, it's only a real estate agent they let show them homes under the guise they are looking for a home. And that isn't a problem is it? Agents make too much money anyway.

It's the business model, not the pricing model that turns me off.

Posted by sandykaduce at 10/25/07 6:59 p.m.

Just for the sake of having a variety of viewpoints I think it would be interesting to have someone from Redfin or Help-U-Sell write for the blog.

Then maybe we could have every post exceed 100 comments!

For what it's worth I've never had a negative experience with a Redfin client or agent. We don't see a whole lot of them up here in Snohomish county but I have had a few experiences and they've been positive. Of course, part of my generally positive disposition towards them is that I have no issue with showing someone else's client a house since I don't do dual. All I want to do is sell the listing to someone so that my seller will be happy, and I don't care who takes the commission.

Perhaps an overly simplistic view but it makes sense to me.

Posted by Larry K Cragun at 10/25/07 7:27 p.m.

Wait until you see how you feel when you have escorted a couple around to homes all afternoon, they find the home, and tell you they are going to make the offer through Redfin.

Posted by Kary L. Krismer at 10/25/07 7:47 p.m.

budhabrad, if Redfin had ever brought me a buyer, I'd know what they do at an inspection.

I actually had a listing last year where I really wanted them to bring me a buyer! Check my comments on the two situations where they'd be useful. :-)

Posted by sandykaduce at 10/25/07 8:22 p.m.

Larry--if that has ever actually happened to you, I am sorry to hear it, But I have a feeling that it was a very unique and unusual situation.

Also, some people are just jerks. I suspect that jerks exist both among the pool of buyers working with Redfin, and among the pool of buyers not working with Redfin. In other words, some people are just jerks and it doesn't pay to try to extrapolate too much from the experiences one has with them.

Posted by Kary L. Krismer at 10/25/07 8:41 p.m.

Sandy, that's t the main complaint I hear about Redfin. It's not necessarily Redfin's fault, but their business model does set it up.

I've not had it happen to me, and unlike some agents I don't require buyer agency agreements. But if Redfin catches on, they will be more common. That's not all bad for consumers, however, because there are some advantages to buyer agency agreements for buyers.

Posted by Larry K Cragun at 10/25/07 8:56 p.m.

Sandy where have you been? It is a common problem. Glen, it seems you might be following this thread, any comments?

Posted by Larry K Cragun at 10/25/07 9:14 p.m.

Let me ask a question to the anti agent force out there... Is it ok in your opinion (remember you are an anonymous force out there so are safe in telling your opinions) - is it acceptable in your mind as a way of doing business to use a real estate agents time to show you homes without clearly disclosing up front you have full intention of having Redfin make the offer?

I would welcome an answer to that from GHK or any of his employees.

I might go on.... do you also think it is in the best interest of a buyer (for negotiation purposes) to meet the seller or the listing agent while the buyer is looking at the home? In answering this, consider the ability to read the expressions of the buyer as to how much they love the house... Or do you think all buyers have poker faces?

Posted by Larry K Cragun at 10/25/07 9:18 p.m.

I am going to sign off for now.. It would be like Christmas to me to wake tomorrow and see a response from some of my best critics at this site.

Posted by buddhabrad at 10/25/07 9:37 p.m.

Let me ask a question to the anti agent force out there... Is it ok in your opinion (remember you are an anonymous force out there so are safe in telling your opinions) - is it acceptable in your mind as a way of doing business to use a real estate agents time to show you homes without clearly disclosing up front you have full intention of having Redfin make the offer?

This occurs in every aspect of commerce. It's called the cost of doing business.

People learn how to 'game' the system and feel little remorse when faced with a barrage of bogus mortgage ads on the radio and a mailbox full of agent-generated junk mail everyday.

You can't have it both ways.

Posted by laxtosnoco at 10/25/07 10:39 p.m.

Larry, I think leading people on so that you're wasting time driving them all around town is a lousy thing to do. I'm toying with the idea of using Redfin in the future, and I wouldn't do this to a Realtor.

That said, if the main value you're adding is unlocking the house and commenting on the wallpaper and breakfast nook, then you've got a bigger problem. The only hesitancy I have about using Redfin is on the offer/ negotiating and closing side of things. Before I work with them I want to know that the agent writing my offer knows what he's doing, will help me drive a hard bargain, and can close the sale smoothly.

Showing the houses is less important in my book; I'll rely on my inspector for a good analysis of the structure and my wife for the interior decorating comments.

Posted by laxtosnoco at 10/25/07 10:50 p.m.

Larry said: "do you also think it is in the best interest of a buyer (for negotiation purposes) to meet the seller or the listing agent while the buyer is looking at the home? In answering this, consider the ability to read the expressions of the buyer as to how much they love the house..."

This seems like a little detail, but it is important. I understand Redfin sends junior agents out to show houses for a small fee. As an alternative, and I haven't tried this yet, but I would seriously consider asking the listing agent to wait outside while we walked through the house. I would try to be polite and let him know it just made us more comfortable that way.

A couple of years ago my wife and I went to see a beautiful apartment in Los Angeles. It was a great neighborhood, had character, and the wife clearly wanted it badly. I've always been able to negotiate off the listed lease price, even in tight markets, but the leasing agent would not budge. He could tell he didn't have to….

Posted by Debra Sinick at 10/25/07 11:21 p.m.

Buddhabrad,

What is in your mail box from agents and what is on the radio has nothing to do with someone using someone else's time without disclosing intentions. I am not sure the comment has anything to do with this conversation.

You think many of us Realtors are in this business just to make money and, of course, that is part of the story. We all work at helping buyers and sellers make a move and like to get paid for it. Most people expect to get paid when they provide time, knowledge, and good service to clients.

On another note, I am not a tour guide who simply shows homes. What a bore that would be. I cannot imagine going out and showing homes to someone with whom you have not built a trusting business relationship. Buyers contact me because they have been referred to me by a friend or family. Potential clients and I meet to discuss their wants, needs, timing, etc. If we agree to establish a business relationship, then we look at homes. I may show homes for 2 days, 2 weeks, 2 months or 2 years to a buyer, whatever it takes.

My clients know I am available to them to answer any questions throughout the entire time they own their property, even if it's many years after a purchase and it does not involve me making a dime.
-------------------------------------------

The issue with Redfin that impacted traditional Realtors perception of the company was their policy of having buyers contact the listing agent for a showing. There were few, if any Redfin agents available to show buyers property. At Real Estate Connect in San Francisco this summer, Mr Kelman admitted this was a mistake. Redin's attitude towards the traditional agent when the company was first established is part of the problem you hear about today.

I found it interesting that Mr. Kelman said Redfin now provides market analyses for sellers. It sounds to me that the initial business model had a few kinks in it.

Whether Redfin is successful or not, is immaterial to me. I have my business model and they have theirs. I wrote this post because I thought the comments I heard about the company were food for thought and would generate an interesting discussion and here we are!

Posted by Debra Sinick at 10/25/07 11:30 p.m.

laxtosnoco,

Thanks for your comments. You are correct. If an agent is only opening the door for you, then it is a rip off for you as a buyer. You should expect more. The agent should know about the neighborhood, the builder, if there are any glaring issues to be aware of about the property that should be brought to the attention of an inspector, the track record of sales in the area, etc. A good agent has a wealth of knowledge to share with buyers regarding the above. A good agent is a strong negotiator and advocate. A good agent will offer advise and counsel helping you to make the choice that works for you.

Posted by Mack McCoy at 10/26/07 6:31 a.m.

bb, #4: We have learned that the new kids on the block whine as loudly or louder than the old guard when they don't get the warmth and love from their competitors that they feel they deserve.

lax*, if a Redfin agent is unlocking the door for you, you don't need the listing agent there. And if the LA is doing the unlocking, I'm not going anywhere. Part of my job when I open up a house to strangers is to keep an eye on the owner's goodies; any sign call I show gets escorted throughout the house.

- - - - - - - - - - -

There are places I remember ... As us old-guard agents gain experience, we tally up having seen several thousand houses, most of us find ourselves workubg with architects on the space-planning side, working with landscape architects on siting, we learn to evaluate houses for site placement and light and livability, we've attended hundreds of inspections, and many of us come from building or construction backgrounds ... we know a lot about houses. Maybe a homebuyer knows a lot about two or three of those areas, but probably won't have systematically evaluated more than ten or twelve before buying one - with or without an agent. No, browsing photos on the web is not an acceptable substitute for education. I do probably 25 houses a week. I may know something about sizing up houses that a smart and savvy homebuyer doesn't.

In my life, I loved you -- oh, wait. I mean, In My Life, I've found that the people who most often say, "What's to know?" have the most to learn. When I find myself saying that, I know it's time to consult an expert.

Posted by Larry K Cragun at 10/26/07 6:59 a.m.

Pardon my sleeping in, but see Sandy Kaduce there is a Santa Claus. However, I was also hoping for something from Monkey Punch, benerish, synthetic, and perfect fire. Would it be too much to ask for you anons to make my Christmas complete? And how about a response to my question (not the laxtosnoco version - just answer the questions please). And it would be like candy in the stocking if Mr Glen Kelman and Redfins nice and brave employee Marce Braniff weighed in on this. I will be back. Lar

Posted by Debra Sinick at 10/26/07 7:00 a.m.

Mack, Thanks! Channeling Judy Collins or is it Joni Mitchell?

Posted by Kary L. Krismer at 10/26/07 7:12 a.m.

Lax, you'll control the negotiations a great deal yourself. The biggest problem with getting the best price is being impatient, and not being willing to risk letting a property slip away. Do agents help feed that? Undoubtedly, for they too don't want the deal to slip away. But what's an agent to do when a client really wants the property and is bothered by the uncertainty?

What you really need in an agent is three things: (1) The ability to follow directions and not telegraph your future intentions; (2) The ability to be able to determine what a property is really worth to aid in negotiations; and (3) The ability to properly prepare a contract.

I don't know any reason a Redfin agent would be better or worse than average at the first, but it is an area where a lot of agents are weak. I can't tell you how many times I've asked myself: "Why is this agent telling me that?" There's a lot of giving away of position that goes on out there which goes beyond just trying to get the ball rolling with an offer.

As to the second, this is an area where I'd think Redfin agents would be worse, on average, because they don't see as many houses as full service agents. They'd tend to not have a great idea what a property is worth, just like Zillow isn't that accurate trying to value houses without visiting them. But again, they could be better than many, because not all agents know how to value property well.

The third area is where I think Redrin agents would shine. That's basically what they do, and I'm assuming what they do gets coached and reviewed better than at many agencies. This might not seem like the most important thing to a client, but it is very important. Not only are there liability issues, but in addition, if your offer doesn't look good structurally, you might not get you offer accepted, or another better offer might come in before you manage to go back and forth 4 times to reach mutual acceptance.

If there's a bottom line it's probably that it doesn't matter where the agent works or how they get paid, it depends on their abilities.

Posted by Kary L. Krismer at 10/26/07 7:18 a.m.

buddhabrad has a point about this happening elsewhere. How many people have gone to Best Buy to look at something that they plan on buying mail order? How many people have gone to a car dealer to take a test drive when they plan on buying through Costco? There are a lot of business models that are set up with the very real possibility, if not certainty, that someone will use the services of another company prior to dealing with them.

Posted by laxtosnoco at 10/26/07 7:31 a.m.

Let me ask a question to the anti agent force out there... Is it ok in your opinion (remember you are an anonymous force out there so are safe in telling your opinions) - is it acceptable in your mind as a way of doing business to use a real estate agents time to show you homes without clearly disclosing up front you have full intention of having Redfin make the offer?

Okay Larry, here's my direct response.

For buyer's agents, my answer would be no.

For listing agents I might not directly disclose that I was using Redfin. If the agent asked if I was represented I would say definitely say yes. I might not volunteer the name Redfin unless they asked which firm I was working with. Although a listing agent shouldn't really care, some agents have a misconception of how Redfin works.

Posted by Larry K Cragun at 10/26/07 7:51 a.m.

Mr Glen Kelman, leader - CEO

Let me ask a question: is it acceptable in your mind as a way of doing business to use a real estate agents time to show homes without clearly disclosing up front they have full intention of having Redfin make the offer?

Posted by Debra Sinick at 10/26/07 7:51 a.m.

Kary, Good point about business models. One other way to look at it, though, is cars and audio equipment are commodities. Real estate services are not.

Buddhabrad, you are correct, as Kary pointed out, there instances in which people do take up someone's time and only plan to use them for information. It does happen. Although, it's not something I'm comfortable with doing.

Posted by sandykaduce at 10/26/07 7:58 a.m.

Larry--you ask where I've been? I've been in Snohomish County where we didn't see a whole lot of Redfin early on when they were first figuring out how they were going to make their model work. For most of their first year in existence all we heard about them were rumors. And since I am not big on gossip, I chose to suspend judgement on Redfin until I ran across them myself in my own market.

That said, since spring I've had 4 experiences with Redfin buyers, and all of them were decent enough to disclose their intentions.

In my mind this is just the kind of stuff that goes on in this business, and I don't see any point to getting worked up about it. You can't win them all. Sometimes you will show houses to people who don't want to buy one from you. C'est la vie.

Posted by Mack McCoy at 10/26/07 9:35 a.m.

You kids. Before Wings, Paul McCartney was in a group called, "The Beatles." But kudos for the Judy Collins reference, she was the first folkie to have commercial success singing art songs. Born in Denver, raised in Seattle, lives on Manhattan's Upper West Side just three blocks from my ancestral home.

- - - - - - - - - -

I guess I find it hard to believe that so many agents are willing to cold-show their listings to strangers. You think I'm frosted with anonymous posters, do you think I love the idea of meeting some stranger - no matter how nice his girlfriend sounds on the phone - at my vacant listing?

A stranger who, while not necessarily dangerous, can quite likely be a scrub - someone who doesn't have their financing in place, who isn't working with an agent, who may very well not be ready to make an offer on a property they like.

Telling me on the phone that you're legit doesn't make it so, does it?

Posted by Mack McCoy at 10/26/07 9:52 a.m.

- Do agents help feed that? Undoubtedly, for they too don't want the deal to slip away.

I think it depends on the needs of my buyer. Because I deal primarily in principal residences, it is dam important to my buyer that they get the house - it is much more to them than just another piece of property. They want to live HERE, and they want me to make it happen.

So, no, I don't want the "deal to slip away."

I don't see this as a bad thing. Our license says "Real Estate Salesperson," people ostensibly come to us because they want to engage in a real estate transaction.

Posted by Debra Sinick at 10/26/07 9:57 a.m.

Mack,

Good point. This is an issue that all Realtors need to face, male or female. Every year Realtors are killed on the job. A Windermere agent was killed a few years back when showing a home in Woodinville. It does happen. We put ourselves in vulnerable situations far more than most people.

Posted by Mack McCoy at 10/26/07 10:04 a.m.

I haven't really been keeping up on this, but doesn't NAR recommend that we have all prospective clients meet us at the office where we can photocopy their ID before showing them property?

When I take on buyer clients, we don't go and see anything until they've been prequalified. I know, they just want to get a feel for the market, but it's discouraging as all get out to show you a bunch of houses priced 25% more than your budget allows.

Posted by Debra Sinick at 10/26/07 10:19 a.m.

NAR may make that recommendation. I know Windermere does in our office. However, many agents do not follow it.

Real estate 101, do not put a buyer in your car who is not pre-approved! You are right, it is a waste of time and sets up a buyer to be unhappy with what is available if it turns out the house they lovedthe week before is unattainable.

Posted by Marce Branniff at 10/26/07 10:20 a.m.

Hi Larry.

I'm happy to answer your question from my own experience and perspective. When people request a home tour with Redfin, that query goes right to my inbox, and I have the opportunity to chat with a lot of potential homebuyers. During the conversation, if I get any indication that they may have a relationship with another agent, I'll inquire about a buyer's agency agreement. If they have signed one, it's obviously clear cut. If not, I'll try to get an understanding of the relationship. Sometimes the potential Redfin client has spent time with more than one agent, and hadn't found the right one for them. They elect to work with Redfin after sussing out several agents. No problem there. Friendly note to traditional agents: don't be so pushy and sales-y. It turns people off. ;)
However, I've also spoken with a few folks who had spent more than one afternoon with a particular agent, and there clearly was a time investment made there by that agent. In those cases, I have no qualms about asking the customer why they would spend days and weeks with one agent but submit their offer with another. If the answer is about the savings they get with Redfin, I'll always suggest that they discuss this with their original agent, and remind them that in real estate, everything is negotiable, even, or perhaps especially, the agent's commission.
So, the shorter answer is no, it's just not ok for someone to see a bunch of homes, over a period of time, with one agent, with the intention of submitting their offer with another. Unfortunately, it does sometimes happen, and that's a shame. But other times, it's not that black and white.

Posted by buddhabrad at 10/26/07 11:21 a.m.

Real estate services ARE becoming commodities. That's the point. Embrace it and differentiate yourself OR remain a sitting target.

And Redfin and Zillow's business plans are different? Really? It's not about where you are, it's where you are going. Same is true in business. I would imagine they are actually focused on the same things, but have chosen different steps 1, 2, and 3.

Posted by Marlow Harris at 10/26/07 12:34 p.m.

Our office policy is to meet any prospective buyers and anyone who calls in on a sign or an ad, in the office, not AT the property. There, we can look at their pre-approval letter and check their ID. If they do not have a pre-approval letter, we can arrange with them to meet with a lender. We can also discuss how we work, Washington State agency law and have them sign a Buyer's Agency Agreement if we decide that this is appropriate.

Posted by Mack McCoy at 10/26/07 1:50 p.m.

- Friendly note to traditional agents: don't be so pushy and sales-y. It turns people off. ;)

Thank you, Marce.

- Real estate services ARE becoming commodities. That's the point. Embrace it and differentiate yourself OR remain a sitting target.

We'll see. So far, the commoditization of real estate services has been expensive, and doesn't seem to be paying off for the revolutionaries. I think that, for the time being, I'll stick with the model that doesn't require my hustling for outside investors to keep me afloat.

Posted by REnder at 10/26/07 2:18 p.m.

Not all discount real estate companies offer less service, do only what the client requests and refuse to show properties. Some provide full service by experienced real estate agents and only charge discount prices - now that is the real wave of the future.

Posted by Mack McCoy at 10/26/07 2:27 p.m.

Maybe. We'll see, won't we?

Posted by Larry K Cragun at 10/26/07 2:34 p.m.

Well I am back and concluded. Concluded? Yes concluded. I have concluded that this comment says it all about the flag that flies from the commentors.
osted by buddhabrad at 10/25/07 9:37 p.m.

Let me ask a question to the anti agent force out there... Is it ok in your opinion (remember you are an anonymous force out there so are safe in telling your opinions) - is it acceptable in your mind as a way of doing business to use a real estate agents time to show you homes without clearly disclosing up front you have full intention of having Redfin make the offer?

This occurs in every aspect of commerce. It's called the cost of doing business.

People learn how to 'game' the system and feel little remorse when faced with a barrage of bogus mortgage ads on the radio and a mailbox full of agent-generated junk mail everyday.

You can't have it both ways.

My example would be this: visiting an agent at an open house is similar to shopping Best Buy. You don't ask the Costco clerk to drive you around town comparing televisions, picking their brain about all the facets of electronics, making them believe they have a chance to get a sale.

Summary Conclusion. The generation that does business as buddhabrad endorses, they way he wrote his comment, I want no part of and am ashamed of.

Posted by Mack McCoy at 10/26/07 3:19 p.m.

Larry, it's not a generation, it's a subset. A subset of a very small pool.

I think that most of their customers are actually well-behaved and respectful folk.

I look around, and I see much ado about very little. Glenn has done a fabulous job of getting media attention for his little company. The MLS data shows that they've done about 1% of the sides this year in King County (rounding to 27000 sales, 54000 sides, 575 for Redfin); add in sales from surrounding counties, and they're really not making such a dent - but we're talking about them allatime. Glenn's doing a heckuva job.

Wanda Sykes tells a story about meeting with a studio over a sitcom idea, which is that Wanda plays a maid who loves the family she works for so much that she continues to do so even after she has won the lottery.

"I don't know where people get the idea that you want to work for them," she tells her audiences, "if I win the lottery right now, I'm walking out in the middle of this joke."

Real estate is a business, not a calling. It's a business that, so far, Redfin is failing at, even though other discounters seem to be able to keep their heads above water.

Posted by Greg Perry at 10/26/07 5:15 p.m.

The last Rfin transaction that I had was in Everett. We never found a card for a Rfin agent on the property, yet an offer was faxed over. I really didn't ask how the Buyer actually saw the house. I assumed with one of the other agents who left a card....? I will say that the during the negotiation, the agent was very slow and actually missed the offer/counter offer deadlines. He came within a whisker of having another offer come in to displace him (and I was doing my best to leverage his offer for the benefit of my Seller). The agent also came within a whisker of missing the inspection response period. The agent was cordial, was interested more in the mechanics of the process than actually representing his client. It seemed to me he was merely a facilitator, not an advocate. All in all, the deal closed and other than being late with deadlines, it went fairly smoothly.

Posted by Mack McCoy at 10/28/07 2:46 p.m.

I was just thinking about how much I like corporate employee performance reviews in the sales and customer service fields ... Glenn had to wait to October to find out that this particular agent wasn't cutting it ... another broker would have simply decided one day that this person's license was going back to Olympia.

Posted by Kary L. Krismer at 10/28/07 6:41 p.m.

Mack, while you're probably right on the potential timing, in actuality based on what I see out there few too brokers actually send licenses back. So Redfin might be at a disadvantage to some firms, but probably could be well above average even following strict corporate guidelines.

Posted by Mack McCoy at 10/28/07 9:29 p.m.

Maybe, but my prototypical "normal" agent is probably only screwing up one or two transactions - if they're bothering the broker that much, they're gone before October.

If you're doing "annual" performance reviews ... oh, my first baseman hit .227 with 14 homers, gee, maybe I shoulda made a change sooner?

Posted by common1sense at 11/6/07 7:04 p.m.

Redfin. I've met a couple of Redfin agents that make me wonder why on earth they would work there ... these were capeable, good agents, with a head on their shoulders. However, the other Redfin agents were sadly lacking in diligence and skill, two things I think a good agent needs to have. What I've found from Redfin buyers is that they are either totally upfront, and very nice, or they are simply liars. I don't want to show my sellers home at 7:30 at night to anyone, especially someone who refused to meet me at my office to go over the safety protocol, and showing interview, and when I suggested that if they were working with Redfin, that Redfin is very happy to help them see any house they want to see, and the buyer said "I don't want to waste my agents time" ... nice, makes me really want to get an offer from that person! I've also found in multiple offers (olden days I know) that the Redfin offers don't cut it in terms of competetive strength, or quality. 2 years ago I had 8 offers on a Redmond house - the top one was a Redfin buyer who offered $67,000 more than the asking price (none of the other offers were even close to that much higher), and had no cap on his escalation clause. Needless to say, my seller took that deal. That buyer didn't even have a financing clause in his offer. I have no idea how he managed to get an appraisal at his price, but the transaction closed, and my seller just got very lucky. A good example of a buyer who was so eager to prove he knew it all ....