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Opera exec's take on Internet Explorer 8

Posting from Las Vegas ... One of the most interested observers of Internet Explorer 8 is Opera Software, the Norwegian-based browser maker, which filed an antitrust complaint over the Microsoft browser with the European Commission. Via e-mail today, I asked Hakon Wium Lie, Opera's chief technology officer, for his take on the preliminary version of the new Microsoft browser. His response:

Previously:
Microsoft shows IE8 Activities, 'WebSlices.'

Let me start with the beta version of IE8, which I have just tried myself. I was happy to see that it passes the Acid2 test by default. Congratulations to the IE8 team which has created a browser that has significantly better support for standards than the previous version.

The joy that people are expressing about standards-related improvements in IE8 today also shows how starved we have been for good news from Microsoft in the past. As the dominant browser, Microsoft must act responsibly and this includes implementing commonly agreed-upon standards and fixing bugs. They have not always done so, but this week's announcement and the release of the IE8 beta is an important step in the right direction.

It was interesting to see that Microsoft gave a legal reason for their most recent turnaround. Certainly, I believe Opera's filing with the European Commission has influenced Microsoft's decision to do the right thing.

We have brought up several technical issues in IE in our discussions with the European Commission, and only two of them have been partly addressed. Here is our list:

1) Fully comply with Acid2 and Acid3, by default. Acid2 is a well-known test and the follow-up Acid3 has just been finalized. The tests must be passed by default.

2) Support the specifications underlying the Acid tests. The Acid tests are written to help browser vendors who act in good faith, and they do not guarantee compliance with the underlying specifications. Microsoft must commit to implementing the underlying specifications of the Acid2 and Acid3 tests.

3) Provide documentation. Lack of documentation on how IE implements standards has been a problem for web developers. For each specification Microsoft implements, it must provide a detailed list of limitations, bugs and extensions.

4) Drop version targeting. Documents that trigger standards mode in IE6 or IE7 shall continue to trigger standards mode in the future. No new magic switches can be introduced.

5) Commit to interoperability. It is important to ensure that Microsoft remains committed to supporting web standards, even beyond Acid2 and Acid3. If two or more major web browsers, in official shipping versions, add standards-related functionality (a) generally considered useful to the progress of the Web, and (b) described in a publicly available specification, Microsoft must add the same functionality.

IE8, by supporting Acid2 and triggering standards mode like other browsers, partly addresses #1 and #4. The other point remains. I hope that Microsoft will continue to have a constructive attitute, that they will work with other browser vendors to support Acid3, and that they commit to interoperability.

The result will be a better web for all of us.

See this post on Microsoft's IE Blog for more on the IE8 beta.

Posted by at March 5, 2008 6:04 p.m.
Category:
Comments
#105263

Posted by unregistered user at 3/5/08 8:39 p.m.

His own browser doesn't "fully comply" with Acid3. MSFT was behind on standards (and everything else) and is finally catching up. But this guy is a joke:

"If two or more major web browsers, in official shipping versions, add standards-related functionality (a) generally considered useful to the progress of the Web, and (b) described in a publicly available specification, Microsoft must add the same functionality."

Did IE become public domain and I missed it?

#105297

Posted by unregistered user at 3/5/08 11:37 p.m.

@post#1:

He's talking about IE 8, man. It's not out yet. I expect Opera 9.5, Firefox 3, and whatever the next version of Safari is (2.1? 2.5? 3?) all to fully comply with Acid3 when they're officially released. What Opera is saying is that the next version of IE (i.e. IE 8, no pun intended) better fully comply, too.

#105308

Posted by unregistered user at 3/6/08 2:28 a.m.

The acid tests, while initially useful, have descended into traditional benchmark territory. There are a few problems with this.

First, not all the acid tests have been finalized as a standard. But given the widespread PR nature of the tests, they basically become de facto standards, for better or worse (the latter, IMHO, since it alows the test creators too much power over the final standards with little external input).

Second, this kind of test essentially encourages browser developers to code "to the benchmark" rather than doing the right thing. Yes, webkit comes close in acid3, but what does that mean? Is this truly a metric about how well the final standard compliance really is?

Third, the very public existence of these tests also allow folks like Hakon to play politics and make statements that force their competitors to also "code to the benchmark", again to the detriment of the overall web community.

#107895

Posted by unregistered user at 3/13/08 8:39 p.m.

"Coding to the benchmark" is going to be better than having only one or two browsers that will render any sort of slop, and having lazy web authors "code to the browsers". Thereby forcing, in effect, the use of one of those two browsers. I'm frankly tired of that sort of thing. "Doing the right thing" in my opinion is writing browsers to display code, and not code for the browsers. Cart before the horse.

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