Posted by unregistered user at 7/5/07 11:26 a.m.

Yeah, the H1 visa battle goes south and almost immediately MSFT announces a center in Vancouver. I'm sure it wasn't the compelling event, though. Right. The company is seemingly incapable of simply telling the truth.

Posted by cat lover at 7/5/07 11:55 a.m.

Microsoft wants to hire the world's top talent. They will set up whereever they can have access to that talent. I know several managers at Microsoft, and they have all said that it is hard to find good people - qualified people are scarce and Microsoft competes with places like Google for them.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/5/07 12:06 p.m.

You'd think that the GOP would listen to their own rhetoric when it comes to creating business-positive environments. The chumps don't understand that all the tax deals in the world won't help business if talented workers aren't available to work…

Posted by unregistered user at 7/5/07 12:07 p.m.

Yah, it is a b*tch working in software development in the US. The American customs agents rake you over the coals. I worked for 2 years in the US as a game and simulation designer - even working on US Homeland Security projects - and finally moved back to Canada because it was easier to work for my US customers from Canada than go through all the sh*t US Customs puts you through - especially when you're there to help them.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/5/07 12:29 p.m.

"Find something to offshore today."

That's what Microsoft was telling its managers in 2002 when the H-1B quota was 195,000.

Now they tell use they are moving out because they don't have enough H-1B visas.

No wonder M$ is known as the biggest liars in the industry.

Bill, don't the the door hit you on the backside as you go out.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/5/07 12:40 p.m.

Immigrating to the US legally is very time consuming, expensive, and inefficient (the Homeland Security departments don't talk to each other). Plus costs increase 300% the end of this month. I can completely understand why MF is opening a center in Vancouver.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/5/07 12:46 p.m.

Funny how I keep running into "Microsoft Certified" professional IT people who can't get a job in the industry no matter how hard they try... Then again, nobody wants an American with skills. Costs too much!

Posted by unregistered user at 7/5/07 2:35 p.m.

This is what happens when we don't fix our broken immigration system. Talent simply moves elsewhere and companies like Microsoft go where the talent is. Canada and Australia are profiting from our misfortune by targeting high skills legal immigration in IT and biotech. Ten years ago, many of those immigrants would have been coming to the US, but our system has been broken for so long they are starting to give up on America.

In the meantime, unemployment is at an all-time low, salaries are rising and the competition over good candidates is intense...

Posted by unregistered user at 7/5/07 4:41 p.m.

Why not Schenectady New York?

Posted by unregistered user at 7/5/07 9:27 p.m.

I'm a Canadian, trained at a top 20 US medical school but returned to Canada for residency. Why? Because it was too difficult to secure an H1b visa (not that I couldn't). The only places that offered me the H1 were places that no American graduate would go to (the crappy programs). The good programs, although they wanted me, found it too troublesome to offer me the H1. It's amazing that America continues to give illegals sanctuary when hard working people like myself, who speak perfect English, know American culture, etc. cannot legally come here without hassle.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/5/07 10:25 p.m.

Having been involved in several hires at MS, I can absolutely vouch for a simple, simple fact: there are lots of CS degrees out there, there are very few people capable of writing software, never mind good software, never even mind great software. You take what you can get as a company. There are simply not enough people available to write software. And, no, a Microsoft Certified exam does not equate to sufficient skills to write software at Microsoft.

I'm a US citizen, born and bred in this great country. What is happening should be clear to everyone: our politicians and education system has failed us. Other countries churn out a number of graduates who are capable of writing software (they also churn out a bunch of duds, to be sure). We simply do not.

We as a nation have failed our children and our parents' legacy. We force parents to work two jobs just to stay afloat, and we wonder why they're not at home to supervise their children. We play games and politics with curricula, and we wonder why kids would rather watch TV and play Xbox than do homework. We ask our teachers to do their jobs in overflowing classrooms, and we wonder why kids don't get adequate attention in schools. We ask our kids to go to old, dilapidated schools, and we wonder why they don't take it as seriously as the gleaming, polished shopping mall. We charge tens of thousands of dollars to attend university, and we wonder why kids would rather bypass it altogether and just buy a car.

To be sure, there are many high achievers in this country. But there always have been, and they've always been able to get great jobs. But the skills we need as a country from the non-high achievers aren't simply manufacturing and labor any longer. We need highly skilled technical workers in order to be competitive in a varriety of industries, not simply software.

Don't blame Microsoft. Don't blame Mexicans crossing over the border. Don't blame Canadians. Don't blame anything but ourselves. We care more in this country about Paris Hilton and Box Office opening weekends than we do about the basic necessities of health care, living wages, and education. Our politicians, in an attempt to curry favor, distract us from the reality.

It's time we took our country back.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/6/07 1:11 a.m.

Microsoft is not just a US company people! It did not develop it's empire simply on the backs of US customers. So get used to it that they have been for years, and will continue to expand into other non-US markets and endeavours The USA does not own Microsoft - a big surprise to some I know, but it is true. LOL

Posted by unregistered user at 7/6/07 6:01 a.m.

The recent Cohen & Grigsby Law firm videos on YouTube really just confirmed that many job ads and interview sessions are just sham processes set up for the sole purpose of obtaining green cards for H-1b incumbents.

It's not just immigration attorneys doing it. Tech recruiters and consulting services vendors also facilitate this ongoing fraud in order to win or keep corporate accounts.

I network with many IT folks, and based on what they've told me about all this, I've decided to AVOID the following recruiters and consulting vendors.

Cap Gemini - Nationwide

Impact IT Staffing LLC - Atlanta, GA

Insource Group - Dallas, TX and Phoenix, AZ

IntelliGroup - Edison, NJ

KForce Professional Staffing - Nationwide

Matrix Resources - Nationwide

Modis IT - Nationwide

Perot Systems - Nationwide

Technical Resource Group - Atlanta, GA and Dallas, TX

Volt Information Sciences - Nationwide

Yoh IT - Nationwide

From now on, when I apply for a job, I'm going to ask the recruiter and/or HR person if the job ad in question represents a foreign labor certification process and watch their reaction closely and then share my experiences with others via blog posts, email and word of mouth. I'm also going to make it my personal mission to hound every member of Congress about the H-1b/greencard scam and demand reduction and/or elimination of those programs. If enough of us do all this, then maybe, just maybe, we can improve this situation.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/6/07 2:27 p.m.

This is great news!

You mean that foreigners working in Canada will be causing inflation and higher rent there, rather than here? Fantastic! Never heard better news yet!

Who, in the United States, cares if Microsoft wants to hire foreigners in the US, or if Microsoft wants to hire foreigners in Canada? It doesn't matter one bit.

99.999% of programers do not work for companies such as Microsoft, Oracle, and SAP. All 3 of those companies could do their development in India or Canada, and it would't affect programmers negatively at all. They IMPLEMENT tools at client sites, not develop them. They write code, but they use tools written in cheaper parts of the world.

As it should be, if we want to keep the folks in the US well paid.

Microsoft has always paid poorly for the level of intelligence and experience they desire. Sure the starting salary may be 60K or higher--but this is for geniuses from MIT, not truck drivers, who also make around 60K. So, natrually, only foreigners and people hoping for stock options are intersted. With the current "hot stock" being google, only foreigners are interested.

That's OK. And canada's probably not a bad place. Although it just got a bit more expenisive :)

Maybe a few Americans will take a vacation and work for Microsoft there some time.

As long as the H-1Bs aren't lowering rates here, while driving up prices here, I'm happy. Seeya, MSFT.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/8/07 4:17 a.m.

If Bill doesn't want to make his product in America, he shouldn't sell it in America. I was a Microsoft Partner, but that ended today.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/10/07 7:12 a.m.

YEAH! Welcome 2 the province Microsofties! #39842 Canada is still located in North America and oh so glad to have Bills imput! On immigration he makes sense as well as billions. If not president of USA, he could easily be a contender for prime minister, if he wanted to.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/10/07 11:32 a.m.

Bill is just having a billionaire's tantrum.

Mr. Gates is a capitalist that believes labor demand should be met with foreign supply in order to keep costs low. He also complains that increasing numbers of Americans are avoiding technology careers.

The reality is that he himself has created and continues to foster this phenomenon by short-circuiting the economics of the labor market. Increased demand for technologists normally translates to increased wages which attracts more American students to the field. When this increased demand is instead met with foreign labor this attractive force is neutralized. Mr. Gates and others like him are thus destroying the technological future of America by stepping around the very people and country that allowed their companies to come into being in the first place.

Mr. Gates also states that there is a shortage of skilled labor in this country, and that anyone with a good computer science education are employed somewhere. But the reality is I worked at Microsoft for many years, and was instructed along with others at times to disqualify American citizen applicants in favor of Chinese and Indian candidates.

We were instructed to use our expertise as software developers to put together candidate reports comparing citizen applicants to foreigners to favor foreigners in such a way as to mystify any reviewing federal agency. I'm not proud for having participated in this, but I was young and that is how it is.

I believe that a capitalist should provide pressure to get everything that they want, and to drive production costs as low as possible. They would be negligent otherwise. However, oversight of the rule of law needs to be maintained. These companies have a loud voice because of their cash flow, but that should not be allowed to drown out the truth, and the truth is Microsoft and companies like it are breaking the law and have been doing so for at least the last 12 years.

Policy makers should expect these things, as they are natural capitalistic inclinations, and remedy them with decisions that promote the future of America and not the ambitions of some rich, spoiled brats...despite the tantrums that they tend to throw.

Posted by unregistered user at 7/28/07 3:42 a.m.

An expansion "tantrum" is long overdue, but the site in Richmond just won't do, it's estimated to go below sea level if a major quake or tsunami happen. Save on 'softies!

Mr Gates realizes geek squad reps charge as much as auto-mechanics per hr...the fewer of them there are in America = the higher rates they may charge and greater education graduates are found in other places besides the good ol' USA! Yeah!

Posted by unregistered user at 8/3/07 10:15 p.m.

I don't know why people think this a way to get cheap labor. All reasonable high tech companies (MS, Google, Yahoo) in US are spending over $100K (as a whole package) for new college graduates working in US, regardless they are hired from US or India. It is not even about whether US education system is good or bad. In fact, I think US actually has more colleges that produce quality IT graduates. There are very few colleges in Inida or China that matches US colleges at a reasonable level such as MIT, Standford (which US has at least a couple of dozen of). But at the end of the day, there just aren't enough smart people to go around regardless how much you pay and the more countries you are hiring from the bigger chance you will get more people. It is as simple as 1+1 = 2.

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