Posted by mct at 5/6/08 12:44 p.m.

Yes there where a bunch of the once upon a time. However, there were also more killer whales to eat them. People also used to be allowed to kill and eat them (native americans). That helped to keep the numbers in check. Now with a small whale population and no hunting/killing by humans, there are no natural predators to keep the population from exploding and destroying the salmon runs of the future.

Posted by Durg at 5/6/08 1:47 p.m.

good point MCT.

Also, the sea lions are smart and congregate at man-made chokepoints. This allows them to kill far more salmon then they would in an open river or ocean. Thus they can eat more and consequently breed more.

Posted by not fast or furious at 5/6/08 2:02 p.m.

How long will it be before some poster blames a member, or members, of the "vast right-wing conspiracy" for killing the sea lions???????

Posted by soulflower at 5/6/08 2:20 p.m.

What is wrong with you people?!?! Isn't it typical for mankind, or better yet Americans, to put the blame anywhere but on themselves? Could the emphasis being put on sea lions for descarating the Columbia river salmon population be more pronounced because there are far less salmon? Is it possible that our actions alone are the major culpit in the reasoning why there are far less salmon? ALL SIGNS POINT TO YES!!! Sea lions and salmon have COEVOLVED in the Columbia River ecosystem, what salmon have not coevolved with is overfishing, pollution, habitat desecration and degradation, and (heres the kicker folks) DAMS! We have single-handedly extinguished the majority of the wild salmon population, along with millions of other wild species around the globe, and to justify our ignorant, egotistical actions, we must put the blame elsewhere, further exterminating yet another population of wild species. WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!

Only when the last tree has died and the last river been poisoned and the last fish been caught will we realise we cannot eat money. ~Cree Indian Proverb
Maybe it's due time we listen

Posted by SeaDuck79 at 5/6/08 2:24 p.m.

So, it's ok to meddle with nature sometimes, but not others? Who gets to decide when, and why do they get to decide?

Posted by SeaDuck79 at 5/6/08 2:34 p.m.

And why don't the animal rights people ever acknowledge that man is atop the food chain, and is therefore entitled to the spoils therein? If a cougar can kill a deer, why can't we kill a cow? If an orca can eat a fish, why can't we?

If the Sea Lion had competition from other aquatic species for the fish, they'd battle it out, and the winner got the fish. Well, that's what is happening now - they're battling with a species that is above them in the food chain, and the natural order of things is that they will probably lose that battle, like a wildebeest to a lion. Yet we seem to feel as though we should stop that natural order. Why?

That isn't to infer that we should wipe out species willy-nilly - we should act as stewards over our environment. But it just seems that some have gotten their thought processes out of kilter, and have over-stewarded as a result.

Posted by lanternlugger at 5/6/08 2:48 p.m.

The sea lion explosion you mention is neither new nor sudden. It is more like a slow-motion expansion resulting from the not-so-slow extirpation of large predators from America's coastal waters. Most of our large sharks are gone, erradicated by a combination of fishing practices and random killing, and they won't be back anytime soon, if ever. Our orca population is in the tank for reasons not yet fully understood - at this rate they likely never will be - and the Marine mammal Protection Act, unlike the much-maligned ESA, does not set a point at which the population no longer needs such tight protection. The protection just goes on forever, never mind the unexpected consequences. One of the reasons Puget Sound is experiencing such high pollution levels is the high numbers of pinnipeds in certain concentrated areas (No, it's not the only reason or even the biggest reason but it is a real problem yet to even be discussed).

So, you take away anything that kills sea lions and you get more sea lions. Pretty simple biological lesson.

You get more sea lions (and more seals)and you get some interesting issues: water pollution, impacts to prey species, shifts in species utilization as prey, etc.This is Darwin in action.

Sea lions (and seals)are also smart and efficient. Think of them as bears who went back to sea. They find and utilize prey species choke points such as dams, fish ladders, etc. Again, pretty simple.

How about a nice big PI article on what happens when you take incovenient predators out of the system? That might start some interesting conversations!

Posted by Allen Avery at 5/6/08 4:02 p.m.

First, the sea lions stand accused of eating up to 4% of the run. However, human fishermen take 12%. So which is impacting the salmon more? Second, dams take between 59% and 75% of each run. So you tell me. Upon whose back should we balance this equation?

Finally, there is no "population explosion" of sea lions. Quite the contrary. What you are seeing now is what we would have seen all along, had humans not hunted sea lions nearly to extinction at the same time that they were fishing salmon to extinction. The only difference: The killing of sea lions stopped in 1972, with the passage of the Marine Mammal Protection Act. At least, until now.

So what you are seeing in the river is a species beginning to come back from the brink of extinction. There were once hundreds of thousands of sea lions on the river, and instead of congregating at the dam, they congregated below Celilo falls. And yet, there were 20 million salmon then too. So the sea lions can't be that detrimental to salmon. Then, humans began exterminating both species, until there were only 1000 sea lions left on the entire west coast in 1930, and only 1% of the salmon left at the same time. If both species were declining at the same time, obviously there is some other factor... us.

We stopped killing sea lions finally, but did not stop killing salmon. So the sea lions are coming back, but not the salmon.

It's appalling to watch the naked aggression of humans against the rest of the planet. Why must we be at war with every living thing around us? What a pathetic state of affairs.

Posted by unregistered user at 5/6/08 4:07 p.m.

BTW when did High powered rifles and cages become natural. mind you, if you a human were to compete against a sea lion for who could catch a fish. Mind you you can't use any manufactured tools to help you. I'm pretty sure the sea lion will beat you when it comes to catching fish

Posted by melakwa at 5/6/08 4:30 p.m.

I wonder if there might be a way to redesign the entry to the fish ladders to better protect these endangered salmon?

Posted by unregistered user at 5/6/08 4:53 p.m.

SeaDuck -
When is the last time you saw cougars keeping deer on factory farms? And when is the last time you killed a cow by running it down and killing it with your teeth and claws? You want to be like the cougar, but you aren't really willing to kill your dinner like one. And cougars don't use guns either, so don't tell me because you hunt with guns that makes you like a lion or tiger or killer whale. Most people pay someone else to do the very dirty work of killing chickens, pigs and cows so you can eat them, and then you try to clain it is "Natural".
And just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you should. Men can rape 12 year olds. Should they? No. Might does not make right.

Posted by unregistered user at 5/6/08 5:07 p.m.

It is too bad the animal rights wackos can't buy a clue and realize their friends the sea lions are causing serious damage to future years salmon runs. It is fine to blame the dams for all the problems but they aren't going anywhere in anyone's lifetime. Lawsuits are not going to solve the problem. The trap and release plan is doomed to failure because sparky the sea lion and his friends will just swim back once they are relocated and resume enjoying more endangered salmon. How about offering some suggestions instead of whining about how evil man is?

Posted by unregistered user at 5/6/08 5:34 p.m.

Good bye Sealions. Too many of you at the dam. So good ridenance. To bad the animal freaks couldn't have made it legal.

Posted by unregistered user at 5/6/08 9:09 p.m.

A simple mind sees, sea lions eating salmon. That is bad because
we do not eat sea lions. We like salmon.
*
Reality is: WE HAVE KILLED OF ANCHOVIES AND HERRING.
A very large part of the food chain for all fish in the ocean and bays.
And we do it in a very wasteful way by just using the roe and the
fish end up as fertilizer or pet food instead of food for aquatic life.
As a result ALL fish populations have declined and will disappear
because we destroy their food source.

Posted by unregistered user at 5/7/08 9:19 a.m.

One thing that continues to give me hope is that the uneducated, pro-kill conservatives on this thread (typified by SeaDuck79) do not evidence any intelligence in their thought processes - it gives the rest of us a baseline for comparison.

'Stewardship of the environment' means establishing sustainable use. Clearly, 'man' (showing your sexist side as well, duck) has already shifted the balance out of nature through overfishing and habitat destruction. In contrast to your absurd view of the world, we haven't managed to show any level of reasonable stewardship in most ecosystems globally, and the Bonneville Dam issue is just another example of this failing.

If these sea lions were left to naturally respond to the anthropogenically-induced population crash of salmonids, they would simply see their numbers decrease accordingly as they died of starvation. That's the natural balance of things, but your cohorts seem to be prone to artificially accelerate the process by advocating lethal removal - thereby accelerating the collapse of these natural balances.

Your lame, anti-sustainable argument is the same one used by countless groups or cultures throughout history who have justified genocide over other groups(or species): the Nazis, the Hutu, Serbs, etc. 'Power through domination' - if that's what you think it means being a conservative, you're representative of why many of our 'thinking' Republicans are starting to identify, more than ever, with liberal values.

Shooting these sea lions was wrong - and the wingnut who did it simply managed to delay (thankfully) the lethal removal option longer, if not permanently.

Posted by unregistered user at 5/7/08 9:28 a.m.

"It is too bad the animal rights wackos can't buy a clue and realize their friends the sea lions are causing serious damage to future years salmon runs."

Whoever contributed the comment above is a 'real genius' (NOT!) Overharvesting; commercial, recreational, and tribal', and habitat destruction are what has caused serious damage to future salmon runs. The sea lions are simply harvesting a resource in order to survive.

Keep posting your twisted logic - it makes the animal rights 'wackos' look more intelligent and desireable than people like you.