Posted by unregistered user at 2/19/08 2:43 p.m.

If you knew how the BDA was structured and how it collectively votes to make decisions (and joint license/agreements to share in the profits), you'll see Sony has no authority to refuse MS a licence. Sony wouldn't do that anyway, a BR addon would only add to the BDA's pockets. Sony and MS partner on a number of different areas, such as Windows on Vaio laptops.

The statement about MS suing Sony is *laughable*

Posted by unregistered user at 2/19/08 3:55 p.m.

What a load of rubbish. Sony can't do anything if MS wanted a Blue Ray drive. BDA is an open standard and the IP is owned but a number of different companies, not just sony. The BDA have already said they would be happy to have Toshiba and MS on board.

Posted by unregistered user at 2/19/08 3:58 p.m.

http://gear.ign.com/articles/853/853203p1.html

Another blow to the Seattle PI for posting such crap. Speaking of crap, Robert L. Jamieson is one. Quite a racist against Asians too. Seattle PI = HATE. Don't support it.

Posted by xboxfounder at 2/19/08 7:59 p.m.

Interesting lot of new scrutiny we are getting here Jake. It seems we have hit a nerve, with people who know the inner workings of the blue ray cartel. I wonder who they are? Where they work, and what their motives are. Since they are all unregistered users, we may never know.

But let's explore their objections. And do that in a respectful way. I hate the way gamers treat each other on blogs. It's not only unnecessary, it's counter productive. So I won't do that.

First, let's get past the obvious. All organizations are dominated by their strongest members. That is especially true in business. You cannot goog blue ray w/o getting a preponderance of Sony hits. They did some of the earliest research, and hold some of the earliest patents. Sony w/not have included a BR player in every PS3 at huge cost w/o an agenda. Just like MS had in backing HD in opposition to Sony.

All electronics orgs have rules and standards. And all routinely break them. Do you think MS is unique in trying to preserve it's IP by making it hard for direct competitors to compete on an even footing? Hell no! Just because MS and Sony cooperate in areas where they don't compete doesn't mean they will cooperate in all other areas. Business is business.

In fact, it was because Ken Kutaragi said in 98 that PS technology would make windows obsolete in the home that Xbox was made a project to begin with. You don't say something like that within Bill's earshot and not expect a severe response. I guess Ken wishes he'd been more discrete, at least until his solution was more fully cooked. Well, now he can garden. And j got his wish early.

I remember on XB1, the reason we partnered with Thomson to begin with was to get the ability to play DVDs on the box, w/o having to meet all the DVD forum rules and fees at the time. I don't remember how or why, but we circumvented many of their rules and fees so that we could play DVDs by plugging that little dongle into the game port. Why else would we hire a dvd player co to make a dvd rom? I think the problems we had with that ODD are well recorded, as are the mistakes of that decision. The point is that Thomson was able to give us what we wanted outside of the DVD forum rules by abusing their position on the forum. Maybe they s/b held accountable now?

In order to really understand this situation, you have to understand what these "gaming" co's are fighting over. It's not just gaming. Its home entertainment and a fully connected digital lifestyle. Where every user is in fact a subscriber, paying a periodic fee for service. It's certainly not the hw everyone wants to sell. That's just the base they need to install that guides us to one provider or the other. For "small" fees from tens of millions of users. Starting to get it?

Now that you know that, start asking yourself other questions that will lead to enlightenment.
• Why would Sony agree to let MS share the global entertainment market, with IP that Sony developed?
• Why would MS not try an end run to make Blue Ray obsolete in the entertainment space. Ever heard of digital downloads?
• Where does the customer fit in this battle?
• Where does government regulation fit in this battle?
• Who cares about us, the consumer, and has the power to work effectively on our behalf?

I'm happy to continue this discussion, but please treat me like the professional that I am. And respect my knowledge and intellect. I know much more than you think, and think much more than you know.

Posted by 8bitjoystick at 2/19/08 11:13 p.m.

Personally I would not be surprised to see Microsoft unveil a external Blu-ray player for the Xbox over the next couple months. But even more interesting will be to see if your average consumer starts to adopt the format.

Oh don't ever let anyone on any internet site ever get to you. There is just something about anonymous comments that makes people get a bit nasty.

I will never stop being amazed at the passion that people can argue about digital file formats and their consumer choices.

Posted by unregistered user at 2/20/08 2:52 a.m.

Arnie fuller

Posted by unregistered user at 2/20/08 3:07 a.m.

Here is what I would do if I were running Xbox:

1. Put a couple of engineers on the Blue Ray player.. having one is important.
2. FOCUS EVERy OTHER ENGINEER on digital media downloads...
3. Make it not just easy but VERY EASY for studios and publishers to distribute their content on the Xbox Live Network.
4. UPDATE THE GOD @#$#@ Xbox Live Gui..
5. (North America)Partner with Comcast.. some how, some way.
6. I would start partnering with LG, Panisonic, Toshiba and all the other LCD and Plasma providers and put Xbox live RIGHT INTO THE TV Sets.
.... I could go on and on really... but this Blue Ray discussion is useless.

-seandakid@hotmail.com

Posted by unregistered user at 2/20/08 4:22 a.m.

xboxfounder you make some goods points. Keep your cool... You might be intellectualizing to much here. Sometimes you need to be very pragmatic.

Blu-Ray is a peripheral/format. Just like Sony lost the Betamax war in the 80s, against VHS. This time Sony won the High Definition DVD format war. We will see Blu-Ray slowly replace most the DVD players in most peoples home. It's just a fact of life. Xbox is here to stay and will most like develop a player and/or make it compatible with generic Blu-Ray players, no question about it.

Posted by unregistered user at 2/20/08 5:40 p.m.

OK I think I represent a good portion of the entertainment consumers out there. I'm 30 years old with a wife and two kids. I've played pretty much all of the video game systems ever created, going all they way back to the Oddessy and Atari. We've got a vast collection of DVD movies.

There's one problem that concerns me that no one has addressed. What about making backups? Anyone with young kids running about, like me, makes backups of DVDs for obvious reasons. It's saved me more times than I can count. Well anyone who makes backups of their DVDs knows that Sony changes their copyright protection encoding pretty much on a weekly basis, making it almost impossible to make a backup copy of their DVDs. So, what kind of copyright protection are they planning to use on the Blu Ray? Blu Ray movies are expensive as hell...anywhere from $30-$40! So you're damn right I want to be able to have a backup of that. A person would be crazy not to. I look at all the DVDs we have in our collection then think what it would cost us to replace all of them in Blu Ray, and I just shake my head and moan. I realize there are several people who take advantage of it, but you are always going to have that with everything, but you can't punish and take away the rights of the few who are playing by the rules. It's called FAIR USE Sony, it's something I paid for when I purchased your $2 hunk of plastic for $20. Try to understand the concept.

Now, why is everyone getting so upset with this Sony VS Microsoft thing? Does a free market mean anything to anyone? Who really cares, Microsoft didn't share much with Sony, so I don't see why Sony should share much with Microsoft. Whenever a company becomes sucessfull it becomes a target of resentment and riddicule. This is no different. I say Go Sony!! just like I said Go Mircosoft a decade or so ago. No one stays in the driver's seat forever.

Competition is a healthy thing because we need something new in the gaming industry rather than first person shooters and beat 'em ups. Even Final Fantasy has been played out. I gave up on gaming systems after the PS2 and XB1, I don't know why, but the games no longer held my interest. I still play my PS2 from time to time, but not that often anymore, and my XB1 I haven't touched in more than a year. Maybe with the larger capacity they can create some games that can hold people's interest for more than an hour without becoming boring or repetitive.

As for the digital downloads, what are you people thinking?!?! Not a very good idea when it comes to long term. Think about it, Blu Ray discs are going to be at least 25GB, or 50GB for a dual layer. How are you going to download that?? or even half that?!? Start the download, wait a few days or a week for it to finish, and hope it all downloaded properly? I think not. The internet speeds availible to the average consumer do not have the bandwidth to make this even a remotely practical idea. The only hope you'd have is if you're on a college or government connection with some real bandwidth behind it. Then what do you do if you have a hardware failure and you lose that download? Sony sure as hell won't let you burn their media files to a disc, they've been against that from day one. If you're really lucky, they might let you download it again free of charge, but I'm pretty sure they'll want to charge you again like they do now with normal def DVDs that you can't backup. So who wants to go through all that hassle? I can see the digital download for smaller items, but not for full length High Def movies or games.

The only good thing I've heard so far is the Blu-Ray players will play the normal def DVDs that 99.99% of consumers own. I'm not against the change, I just think there's a lot more thought required as to how to intergrade it to the average consumer without upsetting them.

Posted by xboxfounder at 2/20/08 5:52 p.m.

I hear you. I know MS is going to shoot for a BR add on. I was sitting next to the 360 ODD PM when HD was decided on. Opposing Sony was a big driver to go with HD. High cost vs. low customer want and need for this functionality were big drivers to make the ODD a peripheral. But the add on strategy included a big dose of "this way we can also change formats if HD looses".

I was trying to point out that negotiations of this type take on a very different flavor behind the scenes than what most people think. And share some of what I thought could happen, given different scenarios. MS could also look at demand/cost and walk away, although unlikely w/o an "equal" solution for its customer base.

On XB1, MS made a very bad partnership with Thomson to save 7 bucks (if I remember right) per console in DVD license fees. I wonder what the fees are per unit for BR. But since its an add on, maybe MS will be happy to pay a similar fee now, since they can pass on the cost for what would be a profitable accesory, instead of a cost per box.

As for staying cool, I am. I was. I just hate the way people on gaming blogs treat each other. It reminds me of political talk radio. Not something I aspire to.

If any of you disagree with something I write, call me on the carpet and make me explain. I can take challenge in the arena of ideas. But its not productive to go for the jugular every time any of us hear anything we don't like, no matter what the reason.

Posted by xboxfounder at 2/20/08 6:03 p.m.

Way back when 360 was just getting started, I found a company that made some protective shields for discs. They would certainly guard against scratches. But could also complicate mechanical performance. The added weight might shorten motor life. If not well made, could unbalence the disc. And the optical properties might make it harde for the laser/photodetector to make the read disc connection.

As far as I know, MS never tested this. But who knows, it might be a partial answer. And no, I have no connection to this product whatsoever.

http://www.mmdesign.com/cd-dvd-protection.htm

Posted by unregistered user at 2/21/08 6:54 p.m.

Robert L. Jamieson IS a racist against Asians. I thought it was just me. FIRE HIS ASS!!!