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Debating the McCain vs. Bush cartoon

There's a lively debate going on among readers down below my cartoon that contrasted recent quotes from Pres. George W. Bush and Sen. John McCain.

One reader suggested I was being unfair by pairing quotes without giving context and dates. I think the context, at least as far as who the audiences were, was clear in the cartoon. The dates, however, were, indeed, important since McCain's comment came only a few days after Bush's remarks. The president had his talk with the military people in Afghanistan on March 14th; McCain's speech came 12 days later on March 26th. McCain's views were not new; what was new was the "fool or fraud" phrase and some observers were reading it as a rebuke of Bush's romantic view of war. Here's a take on it from Dan Froomkin at washingtonpost.com:

Is Sen. John McCain getting a little fed up with some of Bush's simplistic views?

A reader who wishes to remain anonymous points out that in his speech on Wednesday, McCain spoke about his own view of war: "The lives of a nation's finest patriots are sacrificed. Innocent people suffer and die. Commerce is disrupted; economies are damaged; strategic interests shielded by years of patient statecraft are endangered as the exigencies of war and diplomacy conflict. Not the valor with which it is fought nor the nobility of the cause it serves, can glorify war. Whatever gains are secured, it is loss the veteran remembers most keenly. Only a fool or a fraud sentimentalizes the merciless reality of war." (My italics.)

This came only a few days after Bush, in a videoconference with U.S. military and civilian personnel in Afghanistan, said that he envied them. Tabassum Zakaria of Reuters quoted Bush as saying: "I must say, I'm a little envious. If I were slightly younger and not employed here, I think it would be a fantastic experience to be on the front lines of helping this young democracy succeed. It must be exciting for you . . . in some ways romantic, in some ways, you know, confronting danger."

Notes my reader: "So, within weeks of each other, we have the GOP president romanticizing war and the GOP candidate calling people who romanticize war fools or frauds. Deliberate or not, the implication cannot be easily explained away. It seems that McCain has just publicly called Bush a fool/fraud."

And it's not like McCain's line was an accident, either. As Sam Stein reported for the Huffington Post, much of that portion McCain's speech was a rehash from an October 2001 op-ed he wrote in the Wall Street Journal. But not the "fool" line. That was a fresh addition

Actually, McCain's entire speech is worth reading because, to a great extent, it is a thoughtful rejection of the entire go-it-alone foreign policy of the Bush administration. Find the speech here.

Posted by at April 6, 2008 6:16 p.m.
Comments
#115160

Posted by lost at 4/6/08 7:48 p.m.

Horsey; Why don't you draw a cartoon of Mohammed? Or our politicans the only safe target.

#115161

Posted by PatBateman at 4/6/08 7:54 p.m.

Hmmm, maybe because Mohammed is neither alive, American, nor shaping government policy. Ya think?

Since McCain is seeking the highest office in the nation that Horsey lives in (and you too?) there is much more relevant discussion to be had about him, and hundreds of other living, American, powerful people.

#115164

Posted by Cogito, Sum at 4/6/08 8:37 p.m.

Mr. Horsey's political cartoon is apropos to the current political situation.

Senator McCain, as the GOP nominee for president, certainly understands and expects that his commentary will be evaluated and compared with the actions and comments of the current republican president - but, I can only wonder at the motivation and timing.

Patriotism (serving and protecting the Constitution) should trump politics, the last eight years have seen few patriots - and many missed opportunities.

#115172

Posted by unregistered user at 4/6/08 11:02 p.m.

Speaking of patriotism, during World War II, E.I. Dupont De Nemours & Co., and General Electric Co. both agreed to operate the Hanford Nuclear Reservation for no profit (specifically, one dollar). They did this in the spirit of patriotism. Heard any U.S. Corporations making this offer for any of our recent wars? (You can confirm this fact by reading the U.S. Ninth Circuit's recent decision, "In re Hanford Nuclear Reservation Litigation" as amended on April 4, 2008.)

#115207

Posted by 51052 at 4/7/08 6:18 a.m.

"Bushs simplistic views"...That's putting it kindly. Americans and others are now being killed in the Green Zone. Shiite militias control large parts of southern Iraq and Baghdad. The Christian minority is being ethnically cleansed and viciously terrorized. The battle of Basra was a complete fiasco. But let's not forget that the mission was accomplished long ago. Now we'll get to hear Gen Petraeus and Ambassador Crocker tell Congress ever more inanities while ignoring the realities on the ground.

#115237

Posted by unregistered user at 4/7/08 10:05 a.m.

Bizarre then that McCain is ready to do that Richard Nixon "Peace with Honor" boogy all over again. Tricky was elected on a promise to end the war in Viet Nam when there were 30,000 boys in boxes already. 7 more years we had an additional 30,000 and uncounted Vietnamese dead. Despite all that blood we still had to pick up our "Peace with Honor" as we jumped from rooftop to helo.

Can someone please explain why we can sanctify the useless expenditure of young lives with the blood of further "volunteers".

God protect the working class from our masters!

It was nice that Horsey gave Hillary a day off. Thanks.

I'm sure that weight was carried on that same day by David's colleagues Devericks and Bennett on pages B10 and B11.

#115247

Posted by unregistered user at 4/7/08 10:34 a.m.

The Bush Administration started with the US in it's best position since the end of WW2, but they now have us in this fantastic mess at home and overseas. They were arrogant, shortsighted, and wreckless. Americans no longer have any confidence in Bush. We can't wait until next January for new leadership. If the Republicans think McCain is the best guy to be the next President then the time is now! Cheney should resign, Bush should appoint McCain VP, then Bush should resign.

#115286

Posted by Will in Seattle at 4/7/08 12:11 p.m.

Results matter.

And four more years of Continual Failure isn't a good argument to vote a third time for McCain/Bush.

#115423

Posted by unregistered user at 4/7/08 6:13 p.m.

"Heard any U.S. Corporations making this offer for any of our recent wars?"

I think it is pretty safe to say that WWII was a fundamentally different situation from any of the wars we are fighting today. If that isn't obvious, well, there is really nothing to discuss.

#115476

Posted by springtimeforbush at 4/7/08 11:37 p.m.

I think it is pretty safe to say that WWII was a fundamentally different situation from any of the wars we are fighting today. If that isn't obvious, well, there is really nothing to discuss.

Translation: "No."

These "wars" are different in that they are strictly to expand the American Empire, whereas in WWII, we were actually attacked by one country that wanted to expand their empire, and dragged us into war against another country with empire designs. Significantly, we still have troops in Japan and Germany even though they haven't been in any position to hurt us militarily for decades.

We got some blowback from our imperial policies in the middle east in the form of the horrible attacks on September 11 and others. That isn't the same. Since there is no identifiable single nation to blame, we blame Islam or terror or some other unreasonable enemy. On the other hand, there doesn't seem to be any dollar-a-year men left after WWII; in fact, war is more profitable than ever. Almost every seat in Congress represents some jobs in the military industrial complex. That's tough to ignore for incumbants.

#115478

Posted by Cogito, Sum at 4/7/08 11:43 p.m.

Indeed WWII was fundamentally a different war; we were fighting against fascism, imperialism, and war profiteering.

#115533

Posted by unregistered user at 4/8/08 9:07 a.m.

Building Hanford for $1.00 per year PROFIT was a great deal for the companies that were involved. Everyone got paid for their labor and materials, (I do not know about bonuses), plus the companies got the knowledge to build a nuke plant paid for by the government.
I will run any business that you will offer me for the same deal because my salary will be the first expense that you will be paying.

#115977

Posted by unregistered user at 4/9/08 12:40 p.m.

You mean there is another person running for President? I thought it was the Obama-Hillary were our only choices!!!

#115995

Posted by unregistered user at 4/9/08 1:19 p.m.

no he will not make cartoon for mohamad becouse barak hussien ben laden will be soo mad at him and may also send one of his agent to shoot him . it is realy crealy how directed media we have supporting nuslim senator to be president , sometimes they say no he is not musliem and other time even if he is muslim why not , well stupid may be he gave you one or tow millions of his millions of dolars he tooke from saudi arabia but later you will pay the mony you took as gezya :)

#116089

Posted by Everettdude at 4/9/08 6:20 p.m.

David's cartoon is a true reflection of Mr. Bush's thoughts and actions. What is really ironic, Mr Bush did have his chance to fight on the front lines and help establish a young democracy. It was called Vietnam. He truly is the definition of "Chicken Hawk".

#116101

Posted by Lightning Jack at 4/9/08 7:10 p.m.

I suppose in the grand scheme of politics and political issues, it is much easier to be critical than correct.

#116130

Posted by Cogito, Sum at 4/9/08 8:35 p.m.

Indeed, it is even better to be both - and a patriot who supports and defends our Constitution.

#116706

Posted by shilos dog house at 4/10/08 9:45 p.m.

unregistered user,

You need to compare the running of Hanford for $1 vs. the millions our president's grandfather, Prescott Bush, made financing the construction and operation of Auschwitz concentration camp - in 1942 - while he was a U.S. Senator, no less.

There is a difference.

#116708

Posted by shilos dog house at 4/10/08 9:47 p.m.

BTW - Great cartoon!

#116802

Posted by north at 4/11/08 8:13 a.m.

Why are the words of an abject idiot somehow sanctified by the fact that he remains President?
If one could count on McCain actually living his various philosophies on War and Statesmanship, we might have a chance if he becomes our leader, but he can't remember the past and so is doomed to repeat repeat repeat it.
And his war with Iran will be the end for America but just the beginning for the Armageddon believers.

#116986

Posted by Wolfowitz at 4/11/08 5:22 p.m.

The "idiot" appears to be a heck of alot smarter than you, north. What would your brilliant plan to fight terror be? Be specific.

#117016

Posted by unregistered user at 4/11/08 9:05 p.m.

How does one fight terrorism?

One does NOT do it by throwing millions of men out of work, putting their families in danger, posting soldiers from a foreign land on every streetcorner, and giving civilian security contractors the right to commit ANY crime without being held to American, military, or Iraqi law.

What's more, we will _never_ win the war on terrorism, just like we will never win the war on drugs, the war on poverty...one cannot 'defeat' ideas and social injustice. One can only marginalize them as much as possible. Anyone who believes otherwise has no real understanding of culture or human history.

What would be required to marginalize the terrorists would be to (1) get out of Iraq - no people want foreign troops on their soil, (2) use the $12B/month we're spending to strengthen our own borders, points of entry, and infrastructure, and (3) something that America will never, ever do: apologize, and hold Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld responsible for what we would term crimes against humanity if such were committed by the leader of any other country.

Contrarian

#117207

Posted by unregistered user at 4/12/08 5:44 p.m.

Of what insanity are the American people a part. After 9-11 the leader of France said," today all of us are Americans". We had the sympathy of all reasonable people in the world and instead of grieving for our dead and working with other nations who were shocked about the implications of terror cells in their countries and covertly working together to rout out these cells we "rev-up" our army to make someone pay.

For all of our huge amounts of money expended on sophisticated arms it still takes "grunts" on the ground to win a war. We went to Afghanistan but rather than committing many ground troups we were happy to get the Northern Alliance to do the hard fighting in the hills to try and capture Osama Bin Laden; they were unable although a lot died trying. So we inexplicably turned our attention to someone we could catch although he and the people of Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11 or terrorism.
Nothing had changed since the first gulf war but Iraq was suddenly a dire threat to us and we had to go now. No matter that the UN was dealing with him and WMD inspections and making progress. We unilaterally invaded a sovereign nation with clearly contrived reasons knowing full well they were not based on fact.

Years later after killing 150,000 Iraqis and 4000 American solders not to mention the tens of thousands maimed and wounded plus $1 trillon thrown away and still counting I find it incredible that many Americans still try to justify this folly.

Bush is clearly a clueless dupe. Nevertheless he is responsible. He is the one who surrounded himself with men like Wolfowitz and Cheney, men who resemble Dr. Strangelove personified.

It will take reasonable men with determination and courage to find a way out of this mess for the sake of the Iraqi people and for our people and it surely will not be found in our present course or with McCain.

Thank you David Horsey. We need more voices in the media like you.

#117268

Posted by unregistered user at 4/13/08 12:56 a.m.

"Dr. Strangelove personified".

How utterly apropos. Too bad the accuracy of the characterization would be beyond most neo-cons. But I wonder, though, which one in the Bush Administration could be likened to Colonel Bat Guano from the same movie?

Contrarian

#120031

Posted by Skimission at 4/21/08 1:58 p.m.

American Revolution; Civil War; Indian Wars; Cuba; Phillapines; WWI; WWII; Korea; Viet Nam; Numerous excursions into South and Central America; Eastern Europe; Iraq; Afganastan; Iraq.

Of these which are the most glorious?

Which ones achieved their goals and upon the Presidents we should heap praise?

Which ones were absolutely necessary?

Which ones kept invaders from our shores?

Which ones should we tell our young they should sign up for military because these were the good ones?

#122684

Posted by Sasha7 at 4/28/08 12:38 p.m.

Unregistered User (post # 115995), please take a basic course in English spelling and grammer before making a post. Trying to decipher your comments gave me a headache.

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