Posted by Distant Replay at 3/19/08 1:11 a.m.

David,
you may be giving too much credit to demagogues like Hannity and Limbaugh and not enough credit to the voters themselves. Folks may finally be ready to come in from the reactionary cold. And once they get started the marginalization of extremists like Hannity and Limbaugh will be rapid and fierce.

I only hope this doesn't hurt Stephen Colbert by robbing him of his shtick.

Posted by bbscout at 3/19/08 2:32 a.m.

Barack did a great job; it's just sad, though, that it's still needing to be done/explained in 2008.

Posted by Green Party at 3/19/08 7:01 a.m.

A speech that was spot-on for this subject, given by one who is eminantly qualified.

However Middle America will never allow Obama to become president. First of all, he is Black. Second, he professes Change, and Change = Risk, and Middle America doesn't like Risk.

But this isn't the reason why I do not support either corporate Democrat. They were given control last year with a mandate to do something about all these Wars, and to call the criminal Republicans to task, and they have done neither. With 70% of the population opposed to these Wars, and a like percentage in favor of reining in the criminal Cheney Administration, it should be obvious that Dems answer to the same Masters as Republicans do. They too are co-opted by the corporate cabal which actually controls this nation, and so do not actually represent the will of the People.

Revolutionaries always spoil corrupt systems.
-- www.youtube.com/watch?v=buMaW34iahs

BTW, today is the Fifth Annuversary of the Iraq War, which has now lasted longer than the Civil War, WWI, WWII, and the Korean Conflict. The Iraq War has now cost more than the Civil War, WWI, and WWII in today's dollars, combined!

Today is National Action Day. In Washington DC some are planning to blockade the IRS and other federal institutions which enable these international War crimes, and there will be peaceful demonstrations worldwide.

Are you willing to actually stand up for your country's true founding principles? Please attend one of these demonstrations today, and join millions of voices calling for what is right and true and fair.

Posted by unregistered user at 3/19/08 7:20 a.m.

Green Party, your post is so shortsighted I'm absolutely stunned. You're right, 70 percent of Americans are opposed to this war. How do you think we got into this war in the first place?
Because of that waterhead Ralph Nader. He has it on his conscience.
If he hadn't run in 2000, do you seriously believe Al Gore would have taken us into Iraq?
Ralph kept telling people there was no difference between Dems and Republicans. Well, guess what, Ralph and the rest of your sheep: You were wrong and it's cost this country 4,000 lives, the world uncalculated numbers of lives, and screwed up our economy for the foreseeable future.

Posted by Another David at 3/19/08 7:47 a.m.

The Obama speech has people talking, and that might, in some cases, actually lead to thinking. America is hungry for inspiration. Those who say that the Obama speech was just a speech made for political expediency should pause to remember that this was also true of the Gettysburg Address and "I have a dream." Let's have more of this and less hate radio.

Posted by Green Party at 3/19/08 8:01 a.m.

Posted by unregistered user at 3/19/08 7:20 a.m.
Because of that waterhead Ralph Nader. He has it on his conscience.
If he hadn't run in 2000, do you seriously believe Al Gore would have taken us into Iraq?

'Sheep'? Did Republicans teach you this term?

Apparently #109436, you have no idea that in the 2000 election 12% of Democrats actually voted for Bush! Those who voted for Nader were only a small fraction of that, but the Democratic Party needed someone to blame for their lackluster campaign and so directed you to blame Nader. Ralph Nader has done more than any other individual over the years, to make this nation as livable as it is today by challenging corporate interests and structural corruption.

Before you place blame where it does not belong, why don't you consider why so many Dems voted for Bush that election? Place blame where it is proper.

Further, do you arrogantly believe that those who voted for Nader would have otherwise voted for Gore? I wouldn't be so sure. You are only in the early stages of learning what's actually going on, and I hope you will investigate some of the links I've provided, with an open mind. And please read some Noam Chomsky, if you're actually interested in real issues and change for the better. (as opposed to shiney objects)

This issue is much more deep and complex than many believe, #109436.

Posted by Green Party at 3/19/08 8:22 a.m.

"After all, the U.S. supported a military coup to try to overthrow (Chavez), had to back down, partly because it was quickly reversed by popular action, but partly because of a swell of protest throughout Latin America, where they just don't have the same contempt for democracy as the leadership and the media do here and don't like the idea of democratically elected governments being overthrown by the military."
-- Noam Chomsky

Posted by unregistered user at 3/19/08 9:32 a.m.

Green Party, please settle down. I vote Green, and you're embarrassing me. Maybe in real life you sound articulate, but on a comment board you just sound like a raving loon. So just cool it for a second, please, and focus on the actual thread topic.

That said, I think it was a great speech. It might even be more powerful than the media spin and empty attacks, since it does something that no television media is currently doing: it respects its audience.

That will resonate with some, and fail to resonate with others, but in the end we don't need to get every last person on board to change the direction of this country.

Posted by unregistered user at 3/19/08 9:50 a.m.

I offer the following comments re: Obama's speech.

- I have more respect for Obama because of the speech he gave. Obama supporters would have given him a pass by him simply distancing himself from Rev. Wright. But instead, he dove into the issue. The JFK speech regarding his Catholic background and the role of religion in politics is not a bad comparison. His speech may long be remembered as pivotal in his political career.

-The criticism regarding Obama's relationship has only just begun. There is simply too much rhetoric on a broad range of issues, not just race, that Rev. Wright has touched on in his career that will be associated with Obama from now on. I am particularly sensitive to the class warfare being waged by both Dem candidates. When Obama talks about bringing people together, he frames it in terms of the rich being inherently evil, excluding an important part of America. Rev. Wright's sermons on class warfare are eerily familiar, and don't think that opponents won't jump on this.

-The speech was very good. I do have one comment that bothers me. I didn't have a choice on what grandmothers God allowed me to have. I am lucky if I see my grandmother but three or four times a year. I'm sure my grandmother's comments at times offended me as well. However, comparing Rev Wright to being a crazy uncle doesn't hold much water when you CHOOSE to immerse yourself in his rhetoric for 20 years. It bothers me that he never had the courage to confront his pastor. Silence is acquiescence.

-Obama is extremely intelligent, but he is immature. He is far more comfortable in a crowd and doing what is right, even when people aren't looking or their shouting at you. I believe he will be a good president one day, once he learns how to stand up even when he is criticized for it.

Posted by Green Party at 3/19/08 10:06 a.m.

'Settle down', #109487? 'Raving loon'? What are you talking about?

You are not a Green supporter, or I wouldn't strike you this way and you wouldn't insult me so.

Posted by skeptical at 3/19/08 10:15 a.m.

Obama gave a great speech.

But the real way to tell what people are like is by who the associate with and what they do.

And although I thought Obama was going to be a viable candidate, I am starting to think that he is just another pol who will do anything to be elected.

Posted by Patty Mac Daddy at 3/19/08 1:22 p.m.

THIS is what an American president is supposed to sound like.

Posted by Boondox at 3/19/08 1:43 p.m.

True, Obama did " . . . deliver a broader challenge to Americans of all races to face up to our history of racial antagonism and to finally take real steps toward moving beyond that history to create a "more perfect union." This is called changing the issue. The issue: did Obama lie when he said the had never heard these sentiments from Reverand Wright? Of course he did. You know it. We know it. So, in established PI tradition, you just plow around it without comment. You could have said "it's understandable and forgivable" but to do so would have had to cede his deception which you wouldn't because it conflicts with your adoration. In that regard, you are, quity ironically, correct in your assessment that this is a critically important speach - it clearly demonstrates that when it comes to Obama you have abandoned even the pretext of objectivity.

Posted by unregistered user at 3/19/08 4:15 p.m.

Yeah, he did a great job... Of throwing his living, loving grandmother under the bus on national TV and every media in the world. To protect his Farrakhan-like black supremacists buddies.

Bwhahahahahaha! You can't make up stuff like that. I feel genuinely sorry for the grandma though. Raising such an heel (who was abandonned by his black father) and sacrificing everything to put him up through the best schools (with affirmative action assistance no doubt), and then once he's a millionaire and running for President: WHAMMO! Hang on to your hat granny, heeeeerrre is comes....

I would vote for Tyrone the Pimp before I vote for Barack Hussein.

Posted by Green Party at 3/19/08 6:11 p.m.

And so the opening salvos of Race Hate begin, just as I predicted...

Very courageous, {cough} "unregistered user".

Posted by Organization Man at 3/19/08 7:15 p.m.

I'd be curious to learn what Mr. Horsey thinks about Mormons and race.

Posted by unregistered user at 3/19/08 8:29 p.m.

Green Party, stop playing the race card and tell us what you really think of what he did to his sweet old grandma.

Would you do it to yours? Of course you wouldn't. Who would? Obama would.

For the record, I'd vote for Condi Rice in a heartbeat. She's cute too. And Republican!

[Homer Simpson voice]
Mmmmmmmm.... Republican...
[Homer Simpson voice/]

Posted by Green Party at 3/19/08 8:31 p.m.

Heh, I believe it was you who played the race card in your #109715, Anonymous Coward.

Posted by unregistered user at 3/19/08 10:22 p.m.

"Heh, I believe it was you who played the race card in your #109715, Anonymous Coward."

But the subject (and Obama's speech) was and is about race, and nothing else. Obama is the one who belong to a viciously racist "church", and has done so for 20 years.

And I'm not coward enough to throw either of my Grandma's sunder the bus. Do you think that you're courageous because you post as "Green Party"? Geez, just call me "Republican Party" then. Not that I'm so hot about McCain, mind you. I'll vote for him while holding my nose: Ronald Reagan he ain't.

You didn't answer the question by the way. Would you do what Obama did to his grandmother to anyone in your family?

Posted by Green Party at 3/20/08 5:22 a.m.

1. I don't know what you're blubbering about.
2. I don't care.

Come out of the closet, "unregistered user".

Posted by unregistered user at 3/20/08 9:34 a.m.

Despite all the oohing and aahing by the press (we've seen this for months now whenever Obama opens his mouth), I'm not so knocked out by Obama's speech. We've heard his rhetorical tone too many times to be so easily excited by it, and the race issue he seeks to address is nowhere near as central in the American psyche as it was in the 60s. Besides, Obama seems to forget we have moved on. We are far more diverse these days than just black and white. Latinos are the second largest ethnic group and growing fast.

It's ironic that Obama's "honesty" and "eloquence" have now painted himself into a narrow corner that makes Hillary seem a whole lot more mainstream and electable.

Posted by raven222 at 3/21/08 9:47 a.m.

Oh sure, Obama condemned his Pastor's words, but did he condemn his gramma's?

I think despite the assertion that race is not as central to american psyche as it was in the 60's , is questionable. It has certainly changed. It is no longer acceptable to use certain words or limit certain opportunities, but we walk a narrow line. Lots of people say inflamatory, hot-headed things and are ignored, but let a pastor or a gramma say the incorrect thing and a hurricaine of righteous indignation blows in. If the issue was resolved in our national psyche we could put it in perspective and move on, as it stands today it stops conversation and stirs up a hornets nest of commentary.

Posted by unregistered user at 3/23/08 5:42 p.m.

Beware of CHANGE by Obama

This message is for all Americans. Please don't get me wrong. Obama's change is a dangerous path.
Economy is surely in dump it was brought by people like you and me who had low income and wanted a bigger house; and as the prices shot up demanded more money out of equity when there was none. Jobs did go over seas but not because of the Government policies it is because share holders like you and me wanted better gain on ones investment and corporations have to reduce the expenses. Consumer like us was spending money because goods were cheaper. I bought my first VCR for 1000 dollars in 70s; today we can but for less than 25 dollars. It was us who wanted cheaper stuff and all consumers were laughing all the way after purchases. Today when market is down but only when people became greedy in accumulating assets and real estate when they should not have. And people are blaming for jobs going over sea. People are loosing jobs because either they became unproductive and/or wanted higher wages. Naturally if you were in a business you would surely cut the overheads to survive and make your employee more efficient.
Let's be honest about it that ethnics and minorities are just not civil, I mean morally and intellectually. Please Americans, don't ask for CHANGE that will bring nothing but the destruction. One must observe what happens after the CHANGE. Gandhi did bring a CHANGE from British Empire but the aftermath was the deaths of million people, million more home less, and for months routine has been murder, rape and killing on the street. I know it because I was a teenager then. Lets talk about any African country who all wanted CHANGE and see what all is happening e.g. Sudan, Ethiopia, Nigeria, Ghana. Mali, Congo, Zimbabwe, Darfur, Egypt, and many more. The truth is that whole African continent has been rich in minerals but the leaders who wanted CHANGE brought nothing to their citizens, who still live in poverty and fear of murder and rape and /or torture. Don't blame corporations or the foreign agents for this struggle. I know Zimbabwe and Congo and Indonesia. Today almost after thirty years locals do not have food to eat and neither have shelter. Let us talk about India, there are more poor people in India; and it is estimated that 63 percent of the world poor live in that country. There is no water to drink, no electricity and there is fist fight and some time murder if caught stealing water, this is after math of CHANGE. Surely people are making more money but it also adding more people every day that face the hardship, Africa has been rich in minerals and resources. The ethnic cleansing either in Africa, Indonesia, USSR countries after the dismantling of USSR, Yugoslavia, Pakistan etc. Pakistan Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Indonesia and many other countries have not recovered from that CHANGE they all wanted. It would take many more years before it is livable without fear, torture and rape. If you are looking for a CHANGE in United States of America I will not be part of it because I know what CHANGE brings after it had happened. Nothing but misery.
For your record I am 75 years old and I am from India.

Posted by katlou at 3/24/08 3:28 p.m.

Agreed. Obama's message is one we have needed to hear for a long time. It is unfortunate that he must follow on the heels of the president who has managed to engender more hatred in the world than any other. This is not a paramount time to try to bring peace and rationality to the table, but it is urgent that we do so.

Posted by unregistered user at 3/24/08 10:53 p.m.

"Oh sure, Obama condemned his Pastor's words, but did he condemn his gramma's?"

I completely agree that Granny is the problem here, and Obama should have been a lot tougher on her. She should have been prosecuted and put away in jail for many years for her horrible comments. I mean, she made these comments years ago and he is only reporting her now? There is something fishy about this.

The good Rev. Wright was justifiably incensed by the grandmother's comment and that's why he let off some steam during his sermons. No big deal. He should be thanked for his restraints for not kicking Obama from his church after Obama's grandmother said these horrible things.

The Reverend showed great restraint by not calling for the lynching of Obama's granny who, after all--as Obama said in his speech--is like other "typical white folks". She might even be one of the Halliburton operatives who work for the US government to force Minorities to use crack cocaine and infect them with HIV.

Posted by unregistered user at 3/25/08 8:48 a.m.

While it was a good speech, I don't understand all of the credit given to Obama. What position is he in to challenge us (the United States) to face racism and deal with it when this crisis was caused by his involvement with a racist church.

It seems very hypocritical. If Obama wanted to deal with racism, he should've started by realizing that his racist church was not a place to be. People are too start struck with him and not looking at critically.

But what really bugs me is the double standard. Just the fact this didn't bring down his campaign is truth of a double standard. If a white person were in his shoes and (God help them, used the term "typical black person) had a spiritual advisor who said racist remarks and ensorsed "white people", the public outcry would call for an immediate end to the presidential bid.

Posted by WorldPeace at 3/25/08 12:51 p.m.

While I did watch/listen to speech, I do not know how this relates to our future or change. I do not know how he or anyone can stop hatred. I do recognize his courage to even speak on the subject of race.

I do not know the rage inside of so many who have been subjected to racism in the Rev. Wright's era. I think the "goddamn America" phrase is a bit extreme. At some level, however, America has/is damning herself with greed, immoral policy, bad foreign policy, and all manner of functioning that hurts it's citizens to enrich the rich, etc. How else to explain the $$$ decline, the constant theft of our money by gov't crooks, the sale of America by profiteers, the prison debacle and policy that dooms more blacks, homelessness, the list never ends. I am having trouble even commenting as our problems are so extreme my mind is boggling!! I just got too tired to even feel hope!

While I would like to hope that someone is coming to "Save America", I rather doubt that it will be very soon. The candidates who had the best ideas (Dennis K., Mike Gravel, John Edwards) did not win the popularity, money game to give the best ideas a fighting chance. Who can stand against this massive capitalistic onslaught to create sorrow? See: "The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism" by Naomi Klein. That will get ya wondrin' if HOPE has a chance!

Posted by unregistered user at 3/25/08 7:18 p.m.

The Bible according to Obama:

http://www.thepeoplescube.com/red/viewtopic.php?t=1826