Posted by EdgarEstaCaliente at 11/20/07 9:44 p.m.

This is really good news for the Mariners. Its nice to hear that we are at least taking a shot at some good pitching. The Angels just keep getting better and we NEED pitching to keep up.

Posted by dover5005 at 11/20/07 10:56 p.m.

call me crazy but we would be the kings of japan exports if kuroda and fukadome came to seattle and the mariner sent raul and brussard to florida for the dtrain and a couple ok prospects that are couple years away

or we forget dtrain and put vidro as a pinch hitter and rual at dh

1b - richie in a contract year
2b lopez with that young japanenese 2b behind him
3b gold glove beltre
ss - uni
rf - jones
cf - 51
lf - fukadome
c - jo
dh - raul
bench willie, broussard, and vidro

sp
felix
bautista
wash
kuroda
morrow

or replace rual and brussard with clement and balentine and put morrow back in the pen and have dtrain in the rotation

yes dtain has a lot of innings under his belt but he has never played with a defense like the m's or in a ball park like safeco

Posted by Garry at 11/21/07 6:48 a.m.

dover5005: I'm with you!

Interestingly Kuroda and Fukodome have the same agent, and Urbon their agent is based out of Seattle!

I have this strong hunch that the Ms are going to make a BIG Japanese splash for us fans this year. Johjima, Ichiro & even Yamauchi ALL are said to be meeting with & trying to entice Kuroda over in Japan as we speak. Now Bavasi & McLaren too. So why not add go after Fukodome too, since we are always shy on power LHBs in our lineup? He's got 4 gold gloves in RF, great defense & a powerful arm, and even though he's a 30+ HR hitter in Japan (which should drop to around 20HRs in MLB) he's a patient gap hitter that has set records hitting doubles in Japan.

If Seattle only signs Kuroda & Fukodome this offseason I'd be totally content. The Indians offered Laffey for Ibanez during the GMs meetings last month.

I say DO IT! And then next offseason when Sexson/Vidro/Ibanez are off the books (totaling almost $25M there) go hard after Santana or Peavy with that money, and stick either LaHair and/or Clement at 1B/DH (both power LHBs for league minimum)...of course that's based upon Seattle resigning Johjima after 2008 too.

I REALLY like our look of the Ms in 2009 and beyond.

AND there's not one MLB FA that I really want. Colon "maybe" but not for the price he will command! Just stay in Japan Bavasi and bring our boys home!

Posted by Garry at 11/21/07 7:04 a.m.

What's really interesting after 2008? Sexson/Ibanez/Vidro will be gone making the MLB roster the yougest in MLB, AND having a decent team to build around. We would even have a few spots to let our top prospects grow like Jones/Belentien/Clement/LaHair!

Yuni & Lopez are locked up longterm over the next 5 years for CHEAP (Lopez has been inconsistent, but was a 2006 AllStar...AND only 22yrs old, so I'm fine with his growing pains), and they both make an amazing defensive combo.

Heck, Seattle could "still" sign Griffey on a realistic contract in 2009 for DHing, and still be the youngest team in MLB! The way Griffey was talking during his interview after the 2007 Cincy series @ Safeco...he stated that he "owes" it to Seattle fans to finish his career as a Mariner. He gave a number of hints that could lead us to believe he'd give us a major discount to come back as a DH. A Griffey return would be BIG PR in Seattle, and look how the fans filled the seats on his return to Seattle during the Cincy series. Lincoln might have an issue with him, but overall the fans would welcome him back as our DH and fill seats!

Signing Kuroda & Fukodome though would make Seattle the top Japanese team in MLB, and thus bring in more international revenue.

Will Seattle do it? After watching Grover pack his bags and leave, and then within 5 days afterwards Ichiro signs his 5 year extension...it's appearing to me that Ichiro has the most influence on this team...even over Bavasi! He is SO HIGHLY respected from Yamauchi, that he's a player that runs this team! AND that's actually a good thing in the long run. Now it appears he's back in Japan promoting and doing the enticing, along with Yamauchi & Johjima, to land Kuroda & Fukodome.

I say LETS DO IT!

Posted by Slothcliff Hokum at 11/21/07 9:50 a.m.

From what I have read, I think Kuroda could be about like a #3-4 quality starter for Seattle. He might do better, but I'd be satisfied with a guy who could throw a decent number of innings and keep his ERA below 4.50, kind of like Batista did last season. If one of the younger guys, like Rowland-Smith or Morrow, can step in and do a halfway decent job as a starting pitcher in the #5 slot, we would seem to have a much better staff with a rotation of Hernandez, Batista, Kuroda, Washburn (unless he should get traded) and either of those young guys. I think building up the back end of the rotation is as good a strategy for the M's right now as trying to get a #1 starter like Santana. The way pitching has seemed to go the last 10-15 years, I think any team that can field a rotation with five starters in the #2-4 range of quality is to be envied!

I don't know as much about Fukudome, except that he is going to be 31 in April, he bats LH,and for the last six years has had OPS numbers of .880, .916, .846, .918, 1.004 and .814. He has averaged about 24 HRs a year over that period, and has also averaged 83 RBIs, 89 runs scored, 33 doubles, 5 or 6 triples, and 8 or 9 steals with about a .667 success rate there. It looks like has has fanned about 95 times a season. How close are those stats to those of Guillen? Seems like they should be fairly close. Fukudome's stats make it look like he fell off a bit last season, maybe due to injury? He had fewer ABs than usual last year anyway, and also did in 2004. Seems like he might have started out as a 1B-3B-SS but was moved to the OF in 2002? Anyway, if he could be signed to replace Guillen in RF, why not take a flyer on him? As long as the team then puts Jones in LF full time and Raul at DH full time so he can concentrate on hitting and have no more adventures in LF, I'm fine with it.

That leaves the same question as before about what to do with Vidro. Also, and the ballclub knows more about this than any of us probably do, is Balentien ready for a full time MLB job? If so, would it be better to play him in LF or RF instead of spending the extra money to sign Fukudome?

I don't think Jose Lopez is as expendable as many here seem to think, but should the M's put Jones permanently in LF and use either Balentien or Fukodome in RF, it seems like they are addressing some hitting needs. Would they use Lopez as a trading chip, and if so, who is out there to take his place at 2B? Can Mike Morse play 2B? Should he? I'd be interested in seeing what Morse could do as a regular, for a full-season. I don't know what other 2B are out there who could do better than Lopez and who would be available to Seattle, or even if it would be necessary to go after one of them.

Posted by Big Wil at 11/21/07 11:41 a.m.

Great chatter guys, but everyone's getting carried away on Fukudome. Forget the extension talk, the reason we didn't pick up the option on Guillen was to make room for Adam Jones. We also should look at some creative ways to clear out left field for Balentien at least part time, (Raul to 1st and pt DH). We need another outfielder like we need Bobby Ayala to make a comeback and anchor our bullpen. Moving Raul would be giving up on the season. He's our best hitter and leader. The only way I'd move Raul (who's a bargain by the way) would be for Johan Santana, for whom I'd also blow up the farm system and mortgage Safeco field if need be. I love that we're in Japan and hope they don't come back until Kuroda is on board.

I'd take a shot at Colon on a 2 year deal because his upside is so high and worst case he increases local restaurant revenue markedly. I'd welcome Randy Wolf as well. Other than that, we've gotta let at least one of the kids win a spot. I'd crap my pants if Morrow was ready to start in May, but let's all be realistic. It's not just about stretching out his impressive arm. It's about adding TWO major league quality pitches to his live fastball. A show-me slider and a once in a blue moon splitter were cute out of the bullpen when he was hitting 97 MPH, but he can't throw that hard for 6-7 innings and will get bombed on without changing speeds. Weren't we 9-3 in Baek's starts last year? Why does the organization hate him so much? RR Smith had some success and it'd be nice to build on that, but probably at AAA to start out.

And not to rain on anyone's parade, but do you really think we'll resign Kenji after this year? He's never been good defensively and calls a so-so game. He's a wonderful hitter when he takes the first pitch, but he never does (except when he gets hits). He does more for crappy oposing pitchers w/1 pitch at bats than he does for his own staff. The only reason to extend him, besides a nice bargaining chip if we get good value, would be that Clement isn't ready. September and that sweet stroke told me that he's close enough!

GO MARINERS! Pumped up for next season! Improve the pitching, let Adam Jones establish himself, and for the love of god, take some damn pitches! We can beat good teams and good pitching, and we'll take it to the next level if we learn how to be patient and beat bad pitching. GO MARINERS!!!

Posted by dover5005 at 11/21/07 12:06 p.m.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6QhfHMxWPA

watch this clip he can put a lot of movement on a ball

skip the 1st min

Posted by M's Defender at 11/21/07 3:51 p.m.

I'm glad to see McLaren taking a active role in trying to aquire Kuroda for the M's with Johjima,Ichiro,and the M's Japanese head of scouting along with Bonehead.
If nothing else it proves to Kuroda with his agents who are Seattle based just how serious the M's are in wanting him in a M's uni and in our rotation next season.
While Fukodome would be a nice addition however the M's need to concentrate on aquiring SP help other than Kuroda failing that the M's next step should be a trade
for any of following:
Lowry or Sanchez of the Giants
Howell of the rays
Gorzelanny of the Pirates
if that proves fruitless the pursue one of the following FAs:
Carlos Silva
Randy Wolf
as the dark horse Bartolo Colon on a 1yr with option deal only.

Posted by Hank72 at 11/21/07 4:12 p.m.

I think that it is great the M's are trying to acquire Kuroda. With Jojima behind the plate should make things interesting, if not a historic MLB first. But that still leaves the M's with a bunch of 3-4 sp's. Colon wouldn't be bad, but only if Colon lost about 40+lbs. If we are going to go after injury prone former number one's then why not try to acquire Kerry Wood? As for trading for Willis, I cannot help, but think that he is going to be another Zito type in the waiting. We do need to sign at least one legit #2 at best. Hopefully this can get done.

How about a power lefty? Fukudome would definately be a nice addition, but where is that true 35-40homer/100rbi bat? Is there anyone that the M's can sign via F/A or trade? Then what would the M's do about their young bats? Morse, Balentine, Clement, and Jones? Questions abound.

Posted by Garry at 11/21/07 7:16 p.m.

Don't forget LaHairs power LHB for 1B!!! I've seen projections on him that some believe him to be a 30-40HR 1B guy for Seattle after the Sexson era!

Posted by micahjrose at 11/22/07 2:40 a.m.

I don't see LaHair making it to 30-40 homeruns, at all. Maybe 25 tops. It amazes me that no one in here mentioned Yung Chi Chen. The kid is a great hitter who has rose through the minor league ranks quickly and he just got added to the 40 man roster. If Lopez struggles again, his cheap long contract and upside can net us a good player or two. As for pitchers, I think Joe Woerman has a better chance of being a starter for the Ms at the end of 2009 than either Morrow or Rowland-Smith. He has been great the past two seasons and averages about 7 and 1/2 opponents hits per nine as a starter. I applaud the Ms for making a real effort on signing Kuroda, and I hope we get him. In the #5 spot, I want Joe Woerman. Check his stats; he's legit.

Posted by micahjrose at 11/22/07 3:04 a.m.

Wlad Balentien could be that 35-40 homer 100 rbi guy down the line. He's gotten some comparisons to Manny Ramirez. I only hope we decide to keep him, instead of trading him off. Give him 1 more year, maybe less, and he'll be starting in left field, with Adam Jones in right. Let's just hope Raul can play 1B, or that we can get good value in a trade. I think Jeff Clement might make the team out of spring training and split time between DH and catcher, like he did at Tacoma last year. I don't see him playing 1st base, even though I think it would fill our needs best. The organization hasn't given him any time there, often saying how much they want him to be a catcher. It also clears an advancement ladder for Adam Moore from High Desert if Clement gets out of AAA.

Posted by MTMariner at 11/22/07 1:42 p.m.

I would trade Washburn, he hasn't shown me much for his salary.

Posted by M's Defender at 11/22/07 3:20 p.m.

I agree micahjrose Balentien is that 30 +HR and 100 rbi guy the M's are looking for and is one of only few RHBs that can have success in Safeco.

However I wouldn't compare him with ManRam based on from what I've seen of him at the plate I say a good comparsion would be Edgar Martinez with more power.

In his minor league career when Balentien is hitting he rarely goes below .285 avg and a way higher BB rate than alot of power hitters so his K's tend to bit high but he's lower that alot.So he 's a definate keeper unless the deal is for a Santana or a Peavy type TOR forget it.

I futher agree Clement's future and best chance to hold on to his LHB is to move him to 1stB and if the M's don't retain Burke at backup to Johjima and choose to go inhouse then Johnson the guy.
That will achieve the same result it allows the M's to promote Adam Moore to AA or if earned AAA.

MTMariner I too am a advocate of moving Washburn in a prospect deal and clear yet another spot to sign either Japanese FA other than Kuroda or maybe even open the 4th slot to an inhouse MLB ready SP.

Posted by Hank72 at 11/22/07 5:12 p.m.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Posted by MTMariner at 11/22/07 6:51 p.m.

Angels looking like they are serious about winning World Series. Adding a good pitcher and Torii Hunter just put more pressure on Mariners front office.

Posted by BenDavis4ever at 11/22/07 7:45 p.m.

Has anybody thought for a moment that by having a Japanese catcher, that it might have a dramatic impact on the Japanese pitching that has been coming over to the United States lately. If we do indeed land Kuroda, and Johjima has him posting stats comparable to that over in Japan, I say bring back Hideki Irabu. Okay, maybe not that far, but Igawa would certainly become very interesting.

Posted by dinolee at 11/23/07 1:18 p.m.

now i read the angels may include gary matthews in a trade to the orioles for miguel tejada. man, that would make the angels mighty tough.

Posted by M's Defender at 11/23/07 2:44 p.m.

MTMariner I know the Angels have aquired via trade P Jon Garland and signed FA CFer Torii Hunter however I don't agree that it makes things any tougher on the M's FO.
The FO hasn't made the needed moves to compete within the division since Bavasi was hired as GM at least not the RIGHT ones.

However the Angels will find that the chances of Hunter remaining 100% healthy aren't good even if he passes the phyical they have insisted on.
Too many years of playing on turf with minimum injury will catch up to him as it did with Griffey Jr after he was traded to the Reds in 1999.He's a leg injury waitng to happen most likely either a knee or hamstring.
Garland will at best with their D will be a .500 pitcher with a ERA of over 4.

BenDavis4ever I agree if the M's do land Kuroda and he has success with Johjima as a battery mate I think then Igawa would be very interest possible trade target and other Japanese Pitchers who are true FAs may consider Seattle as top of the list club to sign with and I 'm sure Johjima would be willing to remain on as a coach for catchers to help MLB prospects at this position with the M's to handle Japanese talent.

If so dinolee the Angels must have alot trade bait to make the deal and not just Matthews Jr so Baltimore parts with Tejada but only if they will play him at SS cause he 's made it clear he isn't interested in any move to 3rdB.

Posted by dover5005 at 11/23/07 5:32 p.m.

as fans look at what the mariners are doing in the offseason they have to realize what kind of team the mariners are looking for.

picture us like the san diego padres

big ballpark with a great pitching staff and stuggle to get runs an averge game last year for san diego was like 3 to 2 and a victory

we don't need to spend crazy money on power, unless its at the dh postion, but spend money on pitching, defense, and speed. thats why i think the mariners need to going into the offseason thinking pitching and defense.

rual is a smart solid player but is slow on base and slow in the field.

an defensive with the infield we have (i think lopez could be a piece in a trade if the mariners trade for pitching)and a defense with jones ichiro and fukadome i think we would have a great defense

kuroda
and dtrain,colon, grozalanny, or marrow

fill out the end of the rotation and i think we can compete with the angels especially now that they have hunter and garland

when the angels start getting active it shows that we need to get active in a hurry before the gap grows

Posted by TheFan12 at 11/27/07 8:48 a.m.

I like the ideas dover. I think the Mariners need to make some moves that will bolster their starting rotation for sure. I am also shaky on the bullpen because of how they tanked it last year, but in the same breath think that bolstering the rotation will only help to eleviate the workload on the 'pen.

I look at a guy like Raul Ibanez and wonder if the Mariners would entertain the idea of moving him. While he is good with the bat, it is pitching that will win you a division. Sure, timely hitting is essential, but I think the continued emergence of Adam Jones will only rectify that problem, if it becomes one. I, myself, am not too keen on seeing Jose Guillen go, although him coming back is not completely ruled out. A longshot, yes, but I think it could happen.

Trading Ibanez would be beneficial if the Mariners could get a top-notch or middle of the rotation pitcher for him. Sure, you would need to package in some young talent but I think that the M's need to analyze the option for trading him and who to send with him.

Dontrelle Willis would be a nice acquisition from the Marlins, but would they part with their only piece that screams as their face of the franchise? We have heard the Willis rumors before. I'm not too certain it would happen, but it would be nice. Ibanez and Rowland-Smith, and possibly Jeff Clement could be too tempting to pass up for Florida. Of course, you could throw in another pitcher other than Rowland-Smith, but I say throw the line in the water and see if the Marlins will bite.

It will be an interesting winter for the Mariners. One I hope that does not lead to a winter of discontent for Seattle fans. The free agent market is not pretty, but trades could be made (look at the Angels trade for Jon Garland) that could help you right away.

Posted by M's Defender at 11/27/07 5:20 p.m.

TheFan12 I agree for the right deal for pitching I can see including Ibanez as deal sweeter or veteran piece to a mid level prospect deal.
However Dontrelle Willis isn't the SP I would have in mind.He's been overused by Florida and tho young is showing signs of a downturn in his abilities and is a major injury waiting to happen maybe a career ending one at that.
My preference would be one of the following using any of three veterans(Ibanez/Sexson/Vidro) with either prospect and/or $$$$$ to make the trade work:
Gorzelanny or Snell of the Pirates
Lowry or Sanchez of the Giants
JP Howell or Jackson of the Rays
Bedard of the O's

However the above should be looked into and pursued while pursuing the following FAs as well:
Kuroda
Carlos Silva
and if only on a 1 yr with mutual option deal
Bartolo Colon
As to the bullpen if the M's FO feels a FA must be signed to help strenghten it.
I clearly have advocated and will continue here to P Jeremy Affedlt.