Posted by JIŽ at 9/26/05 11:15 a.m.

That's that's really funny. It's best to be safe, you wouldn't want to be caught rebroadcasting MLB game with implied oral consent...

SHOTGUN!

Posted by JIŽ at 9/26/05 11:16 a.m.

It also shows that, unless Felix is pitching, there is no reason what-so-ever to discuss the Mariners until after the world series.

Posted by JIŽ at 9/26/05 11:21 a.m.

Anyone notice that Ken Griffey Winn is hitting .333/.364/.627 with 12 HRs, and is playing a good CF since the trade?

Anyone care to guess how he'd be performing if he was still a Mariner?

Posted by Sowulo at 9/26/05 11:40 a.m.

Those letters are hysterical! I'm so glad that MLB was so understanding.

Gee, you think Randy Winn responded to a manager and hitting coach who might have demanded he cared just a wee bit about what he was doing? I've sure seen a huge lack of fire in most of the vets on the M's roster the past couple of years. Coaching can't create talent where there is none but it certainly has a lot to do with getting effort. Winn was perpetually in my personal doghouse for always letting soft liners drop right in front of him that looked easily catchable. "Aw gee, do I want to run a couple of steps and break a sweat? Nah, a single won't hurt anything....."

Posted by Mike Thompson at 9/26/05 12:05 p.m.

Truthfully, I'd call it a fluke. They guy has never hit more than 14 HR in a season and how has hit 12 in 200 at-bats? I mean, 9 home runs in September? You'll likely never see him do that again (don't think he ever did it before).

Posted by Nagol at 9/26/05 12:14 p.m.

All the more proof that Safeco grand canyon field, with its hurricane Puget Sound wind, is unfair to hitters.

If the fences were brought in a litle, maybe even slap happy Reed could hit 10 homeruns. lol

Posted by out of range at 9/26/05 1:18 p.m.

Well, if we bring in the fences that just means that our oponents hit more homeruns as well. How about bringing in some SP that do not give up HR en mass?

Posted by hitterspointofview at 9/26/05 1:26 p.m.

This is one of my pet peves. I watched Sheffield hit a 318 ft. homerun the other day. The Oakland pitching staff pitches to the gaps at 365 ft. and does well. Boston and Texas hit in Homerdomes and we rip our team who cannot hit in the winds of Safeco.
The wind comes in from leftfield foul pole and knocks down everything we hit to leftcenter field. Our competition comes to Seattle with lefthanded power and we wonder why we get beat. (Other than the Vladinator)
Safeco is a lefthanded pitchers park and a lefthanded hitters park. So if you sign anybody as a free agent pitcher, he better be named Washburn.
Or since it usually 10-15 degrees colder in Seattle than anywhere else during the course of the season. Bring the fences in, in leftfield and down the line so we do not have to hit a ball 450 feet to get it to go 380 ft. But most of all stop babing our pitchers who's splits are not any better on the road as they are at home.

Posted by JIŽ at 9/26/05 1:30 p.m.

Actually, Pac Bell is a much bigger park than Safeco. It's 420 to the R-CF gap, I believe.

Posted by JIŽ at 9/26/05 1:32 p.m.

I think it's fluke, but maybe it isn't maybe he leared somethig down in No-Cal that has really help his batting. Even if he tured out to be a good power guy, I certaily wouldn't hold it agaist ol' Baldy for trading him. Others here might, I'm surprised they haven't been complaining about this more actually...

Posted by JIŽ at 9/26/05 1:40 p.m.

Lousy N-key...

Posted by Sowulo at 9/26/05 1:53 p.m.

It sure seems like I've seen an awful lot of visiting hitters go out to left as well as right. Certainly more than the M's bats. Maybe one of you will care enough to look up the splits on this.

Posted by Zagfan at 9/26/05 2:10 p.m.

Okay here's a good deal. What if we gave Milwaukee both Gil Meche, Joel Piniero, or Ryan Franklin and Clint Naogette or Matt Thorton for Lyle Overbay from Centralia. We could let Richie and him swap 1B/DH all season long. Maybe a switch to the other league is what Meche/Piniero/Franklin need

Posted by JIŽ at 9/26/05 2:27 p.m.

If your goig to trade Gil Meche and/or Nagoette expect to get similar players in return. The Brewers plain on going to the playoffs next year, they are't going to trade one of their better players for failed prospects and spare parts.

Posted by OMD at 9/26/05 2:37 p.m.

Everyone is correct. I blame Bavasi for not trading Thornton to the Red Sox for Manny; not trading Winn to the Braves for Andruw Jones; not trading Freddy to the Astros for Clemens and Oswalt (okay, we may have had to give up Franklin as well) and not trading Morse to the Yankees for Jeter.

See, I can become a Bavasi basher as well.

Posted by Gover at 9/26/05 2:39 p.m.

Can't see us getting a lot for Gil now too much like hard work..

Without stating the bleating obvious does the Safe have to be uniform or close to it in dimension? Hypothetically could we take LC in 20-30FT somehow and leave the rest?

All those "take it steady Gover" people take note even Jim Street thinks Clement has a shot for late '06..there's one decent LH now just 1 regular and one platooner LH and we should score around 800 runs, but we could easily score 550.lol.

Posted by party4marty at 9/26/05 3:07 p.m.

hilarious letter...

I kinda like Meche in the pen. he made a comment the other day about coming in from the bullpen fired up to pitch. maybe we could get a couple good innings from the dead arm, on occasion.

Were definitely not getting anything good in a trade for him.

Posted by hitterspointofview at 9/26/05 3:55 p.m.

I took a look at some hitting charts on the homeruns hit at Safeco. The best I can tell is that, and this is not exact. 28 homeruns to left, 44 to right and what I would call center about 4-5 by the visitors. Then look at the Mariners at home. Sexson 12 to left and 8 to right. Some of his left is closer to center about 4. then Ibanez is next with 7 to right and 1 to left, then to Ichiro 8 to right and 0 to left. Beltre has 5 to left and 2 to right field. That is just an overview without going to much into the guys with only one or two homeruns.
Beltre also has 12 doubles at home 8 to left and 4 of those are at the 390 to 405 marks in the outfield. I just wonder how many balls where hit into leftcenter that where outs that would have been gone in other parks. Must be demoralizing to hit the ball good and get nothing to show for it.
Also if you take the 4 Vlad hit to left and the 2 Arod hit your numbers lean even heavier against leftfield.

Posted by Sowulo at 9/26/05 4:34 p.m.

So visiting hitters have hit 28 out to left and M's have hit 18. Those are the only numbers relevant to the argument and to what I asked for. So moving in left field fences somehow magically help M's hitters reach that 28 number without helping their opponents hit even more......So what if it's easier to hit them to right than left? Then load up on left-handed power and take advantage of it. Moving the fence in does nothing but make a 2-3 loss a 3-4 loss. Big woo.

Posted by hitterspointofview at 9/26/05 4:49 p.m.

I did not do the entire team first of all. The point is you play half your games in that park and the visitors 9 or 6 for the series. You as the home are not getting the home field advantage because nobody can hit them.
The other point was it is a lefthanded hitters park and a lefthanded power park. Our team is righthanded.

Posted by Uncle Al at 9/26/05 5:40 p.m.

JI
Winn always gets hot during the second half of the season for some reason. This year even hotter with some power. There isn't much complaining because even the people that liked Winn knew he had to be traded as the M's needed some players and he wasn't going to fit with the M's OF configuration. If Reed doesn't pick up on his current hitting, we're going to be looking at the same problem with him only he's cheap enough to sit on the bench or ship off to Tacoma. Ichiro complicates things even more because you have two guys without power in the OF but he's going to play somewhere with his salary.

Posted by SuziQ at 9/26/05 5:53 p.m.

I agree, Sowulo. We need hitters who can hit it over the fence not fences that they can hit it over. Other teams seem to hit at Safeco, it's the M's who can't.

Posted by SuziQ at 9/26/05 5:57 p.m.

hiterspointofview, I am happy to hear that you didn't do the whole team.

Posted by Sowulo at 9/26/05 6:03 p.m.

"I did not do the entire team first of all. The point is you play half your games in that park and the visitors 9 or 6 for the series."

Now this is just asinine. The M's play 81 games every year at Safeco and guess what? SO DO THE OTHER TEAMS! You configure the fences so that the M's HR production goes up 20% and the odds are, the other teams hit 20% more as well!

******************************************

"The other point was it is a lefthanded hitters park and a lefthanded power park. Our team is righthanded."

Du-uh, then you do whatever it takes to go out and get some left-handed power--like EVERYONE on this blog has been saying for, like--EVER. Building a team that doesn't fit your park is bad management--not a bad park.
If the theory is that Safeco is unfair to our right-handed hitters, then our right-handed hitters should deliver better results on the road. So look up the M's splits for total runs scored at home vs. road. I'll bet you'll find that the M's offense sucks pretty bad EVERYWHERE.

Posted by SuziQ at 9/26/05 6:08 p.m.

As I recall, back when we had some offense there was a whole lot less moaning about bringing in the fences.

Posted by Nagol at 9/26/05 6:08 p.m.

Most teams tailor their ballparks to suit the team, particularly their hitters.

Look at the successful teams like the Yankees and Redsox.....they have the hitters that fit their ballpark.

Even Detriot had the common sense to shorten their fences.

How many left field homeruns and doubles have the M's lost due to the wind conditions in left field?

This is just another reason why it's so difficult to recuit good hitters and why so many have left.

The FO doesn't even have the brains to load up on left-handed power.

I guess Reed will fill the bill next year. lol.

Posted by Sowulo at 9/26/05 6:09 p.m.

Oh and Sexson has hit 20 of his 38 HR's at Safeco. I guess all those other parks aren't fair...he hit fewer on the road this year. I think every other park needs to bring their fences in to make sure he can hit more on the road next year. You know, just so everything is fair and all.

Posted by SuziQ at 9/26/05 6:09 p.m.

No one was complaining about the fences in 2001.

Posted by Sowulo at 9/26/05 6:16 p.m.

"How many left field homeruns and doubles have the M's lost due to the wind conditions in left field?"

And how many did/will the opposition lose in THEIR 81 games at the Safe? Gawd, this is a stupid argument.

*************************************

"Most teams tailor their ballparks to suit the team, particularly their hitters."

"Look at the successful teams like the Yankees and Redsox.....they have the hitters that fit their ballpark."

These two comments directly contradict each other. The first is patently false. The second is true. Successful teams find hitters that fit their parks.
********************************

"The FO doesn't even have the brains to load up on left-handed power."

On this we can agree. The FO does indeed seem to be very short on functioning, healthy grey matter.

Posted by Sowulo at 9/26/05 6:31 p.m.

p.s. Detroit moved in their fences because NO-ONE could hit HR's there and the fans got bored with 2-1 games and NO hitters lefty OR righty wanted to play 81 games a year there.

Posted by Nagol at 9/26/05 6:35 p.m.

I've watched 95 % of the home games.

I just so happen to have kept tally of warning track balls hit to left and doubles hit off the wall by the M's.

The number is 52 warning track and 19 off the wall. This was counted during the time the roof was open.

Regarding Sexson, he is not your average power hitter. He's bigger and stronger than most. I don't have a count on the number of doubles Sexson had hit off the left field wall. Im sure even he been robbed more than a few times by the Safeco wind.

Sexson also plays half his games at Hurrican Safeco Field.

Posted by Laugh Meter at 9/26/05 6:50 p.m.

Nagol

Do you have any stats on the number of second base ground outs by Reed?

I'm guessing 205!!! LMAO!!!

Seriously, the win record, the lack of extra base hits and homeruns for the last two years should mean something, to even the most insane little ball fan.

M's need more power and runs along with pitching, new FO, perhaps a new owner, manager, hitting coach, pitching coach etc.

LMAO!!!!

Posted by SuziQ at 9/26/05 6:51 p.m.

No one was whining about the fences in 2001.

Now why was that?

Posted by Sowulo at 9/26/05 6:56 p.m.

"I just so happen to have kept tally of warning track balls hit to left and doubles hit off the wall by the M's.

The number is 52 warning track and 19 off the wall. This was counted during the time the roof was open."

And this is supposed to be relevant how?????

Numbers mean absolutely nothing if they aren't used to compare one thing to another. Show us how the fence somehow prevented M's hitters from getting their share of HR's while magically benefitting opposition hitters. How many WT's and wallbangers did the opposition hitters get?????

Posted by Sowulo at 9/26/05 7:00 p.m.

LM: Don't forget to include some new fans with at least a marginally functioning brain to that shopping list.

Posted by Laugh Meter at 9/26/05 7:17 p.m.

Solo,

I guess you've never been to Safeco, where the wind usually blows from left to right field.

Maybe, in your case, you didn't notice, because it went right through your ears.LMAO

Posted by Nagol at 9/26/05 7:33 p.m.

Suziq,

I saw your ref. to 2001 the 1st time.

A year like that comes along as often as Haley's Comet.

Everything came together until the playoffs.
The FO managed to mess that up by setting on their wallet.

So many records that year, including Boone hitting 37 homeruns. I wonder where that power came from ?

Laugh Meter, lol

Some people just don't get it, probably doesn't sail either.

Posted by Sowulo at 9/26/05 7:44 p.m.

"I guess you've never been to Safeco, where the wind usually blows from left to right field.

Maybe, in your case, you didn't notice, because it went right through your ears.LMAO"

What the hell does that have to do with what I wrote? Reading comprehension please....I was AGREEING with you and adding a small dig against Nagol. Your response is a total non-sequitor unless of course Laugh Meter=Nagol, in which case I understand your need to try and insult me.

Posted by original ray at 9/26/05 7:52 p.m.

That's hilarious. Thank you Mike for this change of pace: a funny Thread to comment on.

Posted by Laugh Meter at 9/26/05 7:55 p.m.

Come down Hans.lol

No insult ment. I was just blowing a little wind your way.lol

I do happen to agree with nagol and others, who feel the left field fence needs to come in.

It would benefit Beltre the most and some of our other weak right hand hitters.

Posted by Sowulo at 9/26/05 7:58 p.m.

...and every other right-handed hitter in the league too! Unless of course you can get the league to agree to letting the M's move the fences in and out between innings.....

Posted by original ray at 9/26/05 8:25 p.m.

Hey, good hitting always beats bad pitching. SO what happens when you have very bad pitching? Kaboom! That's why the other team could hit them out at Safeco. Goodnight.

Posted by Sowulo at 9/26/05 8:28 p.m.

And if the M's had good hitting Safeco wouldn't be a problem for them either. Suzi's point about 2001 proves it.

Posted by Leather at 9/26/05 9:26 p.m.

We just need some left handed power. Then all this boo-hooing about the fences won't be an issue.

Nagol's statement that teams tailor their parks to their hitters is probably the funniest piece of nonsense I have seen him spout to date, at that's a real acheivement.

It's also not necessarily true that teams get players to suit their parks. Ortiz is a lefty, albeit one who has good power to left. It was often remarked that Joe D. would have had better numbers if he had been a Red Sock and that Teddy Ballgame would have done better at yankee stadium.

If you get good players the dimensions of the park shouldn't matter. Sowulo is right; what you crybabies really want is for the team to move the fences in and out depending on who is hitting.

The team will benefit in the long run from playing in a pitchers park. This is just a bad team and Beltre has hit very poorly. It's not that he has been robbed of homers; it's that he has shown no discipline and missed lots of first strike meatballs.

Posted by JIŽ at 9/26/05 9:33 p.m.

Ken Griffey Winn has gone 4-4 to-nite and just tripled home the tying run to save the Giants season. I am at a loss for words-- I always knew was a 2nd 1/2 hitter, but .350 with power??? It's beyond belief. This is one of those situations where I am glad I wasn't the GM...

(P.S. to reiterate, Bavasi is in the clear on this one).

Posted by Sowulo at 9/26/05 9:36 p.m.

Maybe Winn is an example of how Beltre did it last year. NL pitching sucks.....

Posted by JIŽ at 9/26/05 9:36 p.m.

The A's just lost, the dynasty will wait for another year...

Posted by JIŽ at 9/26/05 9:41 p.m.

No difference in leagues can explain this-- I thought it was tough switching leagues.

For Winn to be playing like Ken Griffey, the NL would have to be equivalent to AA pitching...

Posted by Sowulo at 9/26/05 10:12 p.m.

I was just funnin' wit ya'll. With Winn turning into Babe Ruth, I wonder what was so wrong with Griffey that he didn't go to the Reds and hit 80HR's even with one leg tied behind his back...... ;-P

Posted by Nagol at 9/26/05 10:19 p.m.

Just imagine how Jim Edmonds Everett would hit in the NL. The next Barry Bonds.lol

It's been clear to me for some time, the NL is inferior to the AL.

I see the charming leather and his little ball brain hasn't changed.

Gosh, leatherball has really paid off the last two years in Seattle.

I remember you saying all the offense needs is a little twicking.lol

After two disappointing seasons, I would think even you would recommend a slugger or two.
The M's will never compete in the post season with whimp hitters that barely hit .250.

A tranformation is needed, starting with power and run production. If it takes bringing in the fences and adding a couple of sluggers than do it, do it, do it Lincoln.

M's can't afford another year like the last two.

Posted by Leather at 9/26/05 10:24 p.m.

Nagol,

I will not discuss this issue any further with you. You just don't understand the game. Feel free to drone on and on about bringing in the fences. Feel free to continue saying that offense is more important than pitching. Feel free to remain stupid.

Posted by Sowulo at 9/26/05 10:36 p.m.

Not once has anyone supporting moving the fences offered any response to the simple fact that what benefits M's hitters also benefits opposing hitters. Ignoring a fact doesn't make it go away.

Didn't Maury Wills once try to modify the field to try and give his losers a better chance to win?

Posted by Idaho Invader at 9/26/05 10:36 p.m.

Dang. Laugh Meter makes a rare appearance and even rarer continuous dialogue and where was I?

I love all of these personnel arguements. No matter what anyone says, we'll still need two more starters (Matsuzaka and Washburn I tell ya!!) and more power from the left side on offense. With the DH/of spot wide open that shouldn't be so difficult even for our sometimes inept FO.

With some dead weight hopefully being removed from what has been ineffective starting pitching and even a decent bullpen this year, both areas of pitching could show areas of improvement. Hello Felix, possibly Mads, Sherrill and Soriano for an effective '06. Goodbye...well, there's plenty to choose from, so fill in your own blanks people.

Posted by Idaho Invader at 9/26/05 10:39 p.m.

I believe Wills cheated on how big the batter's box was and none other than Billy Martin brought it to the umps attention. I could be wrong though.

I'm sure the "well traveled" Vladina could fill in anything I missed on that one. She is pretty with it despite all of the garbage I give her!

I'd do anything to see her and Laugh Meter get into a back and forth "discussion" lol.

Posted by Idaho Invader at 9/26/05 10:40 p.m.

I'm currently checking out "The Butterfly Effect" right now again until Quantum Leap is on at the top of the hour. This is one of Suzi's and BF's favorite movies of all time. In fact it is ML's all time fav! ;-)

Posted by Nagol at 9/26/05 10:57 p.m.

Speaking of back and forth discussions I pray that Uncle Al isn't an Oregon Duck fan.LMAO!!!

I once knew a very old turtle named vladina.LMAO!!!!

Leather has to stifle himself, if only he could say what's really on his little ball mind!!! LMAO

I miss a lot of the old gang. Has anyone seen dweebville. Those pictures are permantly embedded in our minds. LMAO!!!

Reed will hit 40 homeruns........................... in a career!LMAO

Posted by Idaho Invader at 9/26/05 10:59 p.m.

Very astute point about the Duck reference, lol. I think he's partial to the Siberian Tech Ice Dawgs!

Will Reed play longer than Edgar for the M's in order to amass that lofty goal of 40 career hr's?

Posted by Idaho Invader at 9/26/05 11:05 p.m.

Nagol, I'll tell them to move the fences in if you tell us what kind of job you have. Judging by your "bluntness" (even though I do tend to find it quite amusing) I'm guessing its NOT in public relations! LOL

Posted by Nagol at 9/26/05 11:06 p.m.

Idaho Invader, I think cold weather makes Uncle Al grouchy or is it the Mariner offense.

Maybe the fire jumper can answer that question.lol

Posted by Nagol at 9/26/05 11:08 p.m.

Idaho Invader,

I'm a sheep herder. I thought everyone knew that? lol

Posted by SuziQ at 9/26/05 11:29 p.m.

Idaho - Again with the Butterfly movie?

I saw Lord of War last week. I thought it was pretty good and I am not a Nicolas Cage fan.

The reason no one was complaining about the fences in 2001 or 2003 even was because we had player with power who could hit the ball. The fence has not moved since then so....it must be that we do not have players with power who can hit the ball.

If our players find it easier to hit homerunss then their player will too. All it does is increase homeruns
on both sides. It does not insure winning more games.

Posted by Idaho Invader at 9/26/05 11:30 p.m.

Yes again Suzi!!! lol

Nagol is REALLY sounding very "Laugh Meter Like" and I'm starting to like it!

Posted by SuziQ at 9/26/05 11:31 p.m.

II is always so curious about everyone's "real life". lol

Posted by Idaho Invader at 9/26/05 11:32 p.m.

Speaking of which, aren't you the artist or is that BF?

I say leave the fences where they are and move home plate up about 50 feet, lol

Posted by SuziQ at 9/26/05 11:33 p.m.

See?

Posted by SuziQ at 9/26/05 11:35 p.m.

We are both artists, but I am the one who has pursued it more professionally.

Posted by Idaho Invader at 9/26/05 11:41 p.m.

Okay, I'll level with ya Suzi Q-bert. Part of my asking that type of stuff is to razz our little group but also, part of it helps me be accountable.

Here's what I mean. Its easy to just think of this blog as a game, like we're not really talking to real people who have real feelings or opinions. I fall into that trap as much as anyone (unfortunately I suppose that is painfully obvious sometimes). But by learning more REAL info, even if its just basic stuff like what type of work everyone does, it enables me to see each blogger as that real person instead of just a name.

Its hard to walk that fine line between not asking too much (which I no doubt do quite often) and finding out just enough that show how each blogger is unique and interesting in their own way.

Plus, I figure people know they have a right to not answer anytime they want, especially realizing by now, that I definitely don't mean any harm of course.

Geez, I hope that made some sense, lol.

Posted by Idaho Invader at 9/26/05 11:45 p.m.

To clarify a bit further, the more I see people as true individuals and not merely names, the better I will behave and hopefully the more respect and restraint I will show. Naturally that doesn't include any "playful" teasing regarding certain bloggers' ages and other little "digs" from time to time, lol

Posted by SuziQ at 9/26/05 11:50 p.m.

See that is why you are so much a better representative of your religion than x is. ;-)

You have given people the benefit of the doubt, turned the other cheek and tried to find the good in people.

I think that's pretty commendable.

Posted by Idaho Invader at 9/26/05 11:58 p.m.

Thanks Suzi. I really do appreciate you seeing some good in me. (Somtimes it takes a really hard look, lol).

Unfortunately, I was just about to comment on how bad the O's are trying to impersonate the '62 Mets right now! Lost 9 in a row and allowed 6 runs with two outs in the fourth and fell behind 11-0. I was listening on XM and the freakin' crowd was more pro-Yankee I think. Not a very charitable description, but nevertheless I fear its the sad truth.

We need them to pull out at least one victory before the Yanks leave there for the season ending showdown with you know who at the Fens this weekend.

Posted by M's Defender at 9/27/05 12:21 a.m.

Well I see Nagol on his "bring in the fences"rant again but giver up on trying to make him understand by doing that he just makes it that much easier on opposing hitters and more diffcult on our pitching.
TO Nagol pitching and defense are overrated and it's all about HRs and power hitters.
Texas has power up and down their line up but avg D with avg but inconsistent pitching at best.Are they AL west champs NO third place most yrs last more often than not.There the club you want be a fan of Nagol they fit your ideal team.

The FO won't spend to bring any more sluggers LHed or not.We'll be lucky if they revamp the rotation with a decent FA or two and then maybe we'll see a trade or Fa signing for a LH power bat.
I wouldn't bet on any of that happening til it does and even then I still don't expect much.
As much as many here want Price gone I wouldn't be surprised if he was resigned in the offseason he's such a FO yes man.
If the ownership and FO were serious about having a winner again in Seattle the following would happen but won't:
1) Firing of Lincoln/Armstrong replaced with BASEBALL executives
2)Bavasi replaced with a more talented and more knowledgeable GM with the sense to follow Branch Rickey's advice and policy "Better to trade a player a yr to early than a yr too late"
3)A total revamping of the Minor league farm system with a TRUE program of player development
4)The firing of Brian Price
5)The firing of White flag Grover and his staff with an exception made for Baylor and maybe 1stB & 3rdB coaches
(Goff/Garcia).

Posted by Leather at 9/27/05 1:26 a.m.

The main reason that the Cubbies and BoSox have so few championships despite being around for so long is that both play in homer happy ballparks.

Nagol doesnt care about winning the WS, he just wants to see homers. He is a dummy.

Posted by Braying Ron at 9/27/05 4:15 a.m.

So I read in the P-I today that the rotation is going to be the no. 1 priority. Duh. The P-I is speculating that Hernandez, Pinero and Moyer will be back and two new pitchers will round them out in the rotation. So far, about as I predicted as well. Well, good luck, M's. It would be interesting to see where the P-I thinks the Mariners will get these guys from.

In the same article, the P-I projects Morse and Dobbs platooning at DH, with 2B, SS and Catcher being filled in-house as well. No mention of CF. Well, then, why don't we just field the same team we did last year that couldn't score? Either CF or the DH platoon needs to be filled from outside the organization. I could envision a Giles-type of hitter with good gap power and high average rotating between DH and LF with Ibanez.

I would never call Nagol a dummy, but our disagreement over the Safeco dimensions goes back awhile and is well documented here. It isn't just the park dimensions that affect the homer-count in Seattle, but the heavy marine air as well. In order to get Texas-sized homer counts in Seattle, you'd need to not only move in the fences, but enclose the stadium as well. I seem to recall that Seattle's already been there / done that...

Posted by cheapseats at 9/27/05 5:04 a.m.

Ron,

I've thought about the marine air in Seattle, too. But New York and Boston (among others) are port cities with plenty of humidity. And balls carry well there. Me, I think it has to do more with, uh, noodle bats...

Yeah, pitching, who'd'a thunk...

Someone here said they needed to take care of that, because we can't afford another year like the last two. I've got news: we can't afford another year like the last two, two years ago.

For the moment, a growing tumor of cynicism has me thinking they're going to play musical chairs with Tacoma next year as well, unless they not only go after pitching (and as you said, quite rightly... WHERE?), but also rip out the defense up the middle and get some bats in. Thus, it looks like the same scenario as last Fall: show us the money. And this tune is getting sooooo old, you know?

Posted by Doug Llewelyn at 9/27/05 5:05 a.m.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....That was a complete waste of a P.I. article. Told us nothing about who the Mariners might be targeting for next year

Nagol is so obviously Laugh Meter it's scary. Having conversations with oneself at an Internet forum is just...wrong. That is, unless you're Ron

Leather also masquerades here as Drunk Sorority Girl on Friday nights

Posted by cheapseats at 9/27/05 5:43 a.m.

BTW, Mike,

Over the years my job has taken me all over the world and in some cases to places where (believe it or not) MLB games are not shown. Luckily (especially in the late 90s) family members were only to happy to tape games... and over the years I've ended up saving some of the best ones. I don't watch them much, but sometimes during the winter, if one of my kids asks, I'll get out one of the tapes. Suddenly, I realize that, even for strictly personal use, I've been an outlaw all these years!

Well, guess what. I'll probably continue. And especially after a season like this one. Actually, I can almost look forward, come winter, to watching Lou's nervous knee swinging in the dugout.

I know... nostalgia is a symptom of having had another bad year. But that's the way it goes. Selig should have a clause written in to cover this particular circumstance.

Go M's!

Posted by M's Defender at 9/27/05 7:36 a.m.

The PI again overstates the OBVIOUS "Starting pitching the M's #1 priority in '06" well yeah and your point is?
Any Joe or Jane Q Public who's a fan and has any clue as to baseball can tell you that.I don't want promises or grand predictions I want bona fide straight forward commitment and not from yes man Bavasi but from tightwad Lincoln on the public record.

I want to hear LINCOLN CEO of the M's say I will spend every available $ that can be spent to bring the needs of the M's to be a contender again be it Pitching,hitting etc.... and improve the farm system to maintain that winning attitude and play.

Will the above happen? the answer to that is a resounding NO NO NO. During the Gillick yrs he and Lincoln plundered the farm by denying it draft picks of any worth to go with vets as is the Gillick touch's MO.
He drove away Piniella,when it was crunch time a bat or maybe a pitcher was needed did they make that trade no or the made a cheap one that cost the M's and made the other club better.
True that kind of trade was made under Woodward too but under Gillick such poor deals were rare but he did worse than Woodward he STOOD PAT when a need filled could mean a World Series.

These last two seasons have been in the making for not just in '03 the last season the M's had a 90+wins but were seeds were sown in bad Woodward moves and in the advent of both Lincoln and Gillick in their respective position one remains as CEO and the other as a shadow GM.

Posted by Sowulo at 9/27/05 7:51 a.m.

"I want to hear LINCOLN CEO of the M's say I will spend every available $ that can be spent to bring the needs of the M's to be a contender again...."

I very much hope the M's do just this but to announce it publicly would tell the various agents, "come and screw us because we've promised our fans we'll spend whatever it takes." Nothing like a guaranteed formula for price gouging. Far better that he keeps his mouth shut and shows us all this attitude with delivered results rather than more empty promises.

Posted by Vladina at 9/27/05 8:10 a.m.

Nagol: you remember the story of the turtle beating the rabbit in the race? Well, what do you think that turtle's name was? ROFLMAO What was that saying about age and craftiness(cheating-LMBO) always beating youth and energy?

Posted by Vladina at 9/27/05 8:12 a.m.

Ron: your thought was interesting. So you think the reason the Mariners hit more homeruns in the past is because they played in the Kingdome instead of Safeco with its open air?

Posted by Vladina at 9/27/05 8:17 a.m.

September 30 is Fans Appreciation day by the Mariners. Do you all realize how insulting that is to all of us? They're going to give away bubble gum or something to the first 10,000 fans after they cheated us of 3 world series teams, and embarassed us with 2 "competitive" teams that finished last!!!

Posted by Braying Ron at 9/27/05 9:20 a.m.

Fenway is small. The Yankees spend 200 million for players, so they damn well BETTER hit homers no matter what park.

The Mariners had a once-in-a-lifetime collection of hitters with Martinez, Buhner, Rodriguez and Griffey, and a stadium to accomodate them. Four hitters like that today would cost the Mariners around 60 million a year (40 million just for Junior and A-rod). They can't pay that. Martinez and Buhner hit fewer homers at Safeco, Rodriguez can hit anywhere, and Griffey took off before he had to find out whether he could hit homers at Safeco or not (it WAS a big reason for his leaving).

I've always said that a true power hitter will get his homers at Safeco or any other park (see Sexson). What I don't want to see is Safeco being changed to artificially make hitters with average power look better. That's like saying we're going to make the lessons easier so more students can get A's.

Posted by Nagol at 9/27/05 9:35 a.m.

Yes, I'm a fan of the long ball. Some of the greatest years in Mariner history was watching players like Junior, Buhner, A-rod and Edgar hit the ball hard.

This has been sadly missing in recent years with the move to Safeco Grand Canyon and the winds of Puget Sound.

The FO can't even load the line-up with enough power left-handed batters to take advantage of right field.

The brand of offense the Mariners have displayed over the last two years is boring and results in frustrating losses.

What a waste the once great Ichiro has been. The skinny lead off hitter has a better power stroke than Reed and Morse combined.
I agree that pitching is also a problem, but still think the offense in job one.

Glad everyone liked my impression of laugh meter.
I really don't find the Mariner offense a laughing matter.
Maybe some of you will think the same next year about this time.

Posted by Idaho Invader at 9/27/05 9:35 a.m.

If Morse and Dobbs are ever both in the starting line up or both sharing any one position regularly, you better sign about 4-5 all star starters or we're headin' back into the abyss...again.

I think I'll turn into Logan and Mr. X COMBINED if that's the type of line up they're planning! That should scare everyone...including them, lol!

BTW, I shouldn't be so hard on Dobbs. He has that stellar nickname created by Suzi (Dobblehead) and his OBP is almost within striking distance of .300!

Posted by SuziQ at 9/27/05 10:58 a.m.

I'm a fan of runs. How they get more of them than the other team gets is of no matter to me. Just get more of them.

Posted by OMD at 9/27/05 11:06 a.m.

How come X and Logan like Betancourt? After all, he was signed by Bavasi. So was Sexson and Ibanez. I guess they are on the hate list as well.

Posted by Logan at 9/27/05 11:28 a.m.

You can put it on the board.....Dobbs will be the starting DH, Morse will start in left field, Lopez and Betancourt will probably be sent down to Tacoma for NRI veterans in '06 as long as Hargrove and Bavasi are back for next season.

Sorry OMD, your hero Bavasi is not a scout. He wasn't present during the scouting of the King, Betancourt, Lopez. Bavasi is incompetent why else does he have Evans, Boles, Gillick, Engle, Fontaine holding his hand and bailing out his constant bad decisions. But we all know how you blame the building instead of the architect in your flawed opinion. You among the other optimists of last season probably blame Borders, Sele, Reese, and Beltre for not having career years and making your GM look good. Face reality OMD you are among a minority of supporters of baldy, even bad GM's like Gillick and Woodward had moderate success in comparison to the failure we have now.

Posted by JIŽ at 9/27/05 11:35 a.m.

What GM is present on scouting trips to Venezuela? Of course he's not a scout, he's the freakin' GM. Bottom line is that those guys don't get signed without Bavasi's approval.

Not to say that I approve of Bavasi. Logan (believe it or not) is right about one thing, 90 loss seasons follow Bavasi wherever he goes. Add to that even his "successful" teams were underachivers...

Posted by Logan at 9/27/05 12:05 p.m.

[li]http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/157616_mari22.html[/li]

An example of above on how a former GM traveled to San Salvador with Latin American scouting expert Bob Engle.
They made an excellent decision in not signing the over-hyped Maels. Giving Bavasi credit for Betancourt is like naming Kevin Youkilis MVP of the 2004 World Series.
I find it hard to believe a modern day professional sports franchise would be micro-managed like a "B" flick movie about a team scout in getting approval for signing players. It is my understanding that Lincoln-Armstrong got one thing right and that was their decision to compensate for lack of draft picks by bad decisions by GM's and budgeted a lot of cash for international scouting that has brought us Ichiro, Choo, Lopez, Betancourt, and King Felix. It's tough to believe that a veteran scouting expert has to ask permission to do his job. It might have been done that way in the 60's and 70's but not today.

Posted by Logan at 9/27/05 12:07 p.m.

seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/157616_m
ari22.html

whoops, pulled a Bavasi.

Posted by M's Defender at 9/27/05 12:20 p.m.

Granted Sowulo I was bit over the top there but my oint is the same as yours I want solid results and not excuses or lowballed NRIs or waiver wire crap.
I want a hard run at either/both Millwood and Washburn.I want SPing signed maybe trade for one and FA for the other but get it done.
I want the FO to make a hard run at Matsuzaka if posted and any other Japanese SP worth the trouble and maybe have a hard long look at that Japanese catcher and INFer from the Ham Fighters etc... sign any of them if not all if budjet allows.
Finally I want the LHB with power either/both LF/DH.I'm not sure about who LFer would be tho I like Audrey Huff but if DH is the way want to go then Durazo hands down is the best option.

However the burning QUESTION is Will the FO do the above? Will Lincoln open the purse enough and long enough to get it done?
Judging by the past seasons I have to say a very loud NO !!!!. It's such a CATCH-22 with the M's since Lincoln's been CEO especially and with that basic yes man Bavasi tho they do something right once in a blue moon have failed beyond belief add to the mix Lincoln's Profit first Winning 2nd policy.We fans get the last 2 seasons and no hope to see better than 3rd place anytime soon.

Posted by Pud at 9/27/05 12:34 p.m.

Logan,

Are you making this stuff up as you go along? A scout has literally no say over personell decisions. That's Bavasi's job. A scouts job is to scout, and report back what he sees.

That said why does every GM have scouts. Because they can't be everywhere at once. There job is to make decisions based on what there scouts tell them. Not just Bavasi, but all GM's.

Posted by Leather at 9/27/05 1:02 p.m.

Logan claims to know all kinds of things that are completely beyond his comprehension, such as Jose Lopez's state of mind (persecuted). Nothing he says should really be taken seriously.

Doug Llewelyn,

I am glad that you have chosen to settle your dispute, here, in our forum...

Unfortunately, I am not Drunken Sorority Girl. I am a great admirer of hers. She sounds hot. I think that you will find our writing styles to be quite dissimilar. I post only as Leather. I haven't posted under any other name for more than a year.

The question is: who is Doug Llewelyn?

Posted by Braying Ron at 9/27/05 1:27 p.m.

Logan and Nagol,

I think Suzi hit the nail on the head: The Mariners need to score more runs. Whether they do it with 40 more homers or 150 more singles really doesn't matter.

By the way: I wasn't calling for Morse/Dobbs to platoon at DH, just quoting the P-I article that didn't tell us anything we didn't already know. At the risk of collecting "broken record" criticism, a Giles-type of hitter with gap power and high average would be a more than satisfactory partner for Ibanez in a DH/LF platoon. Morse COULD be used as a DH or PH/LF in certain matchup situations calling for a right-handed hitter in that constellation. Maybe. Nawww, fergitit!

Posted by Leather at 9/27/05 1:43 p.m.

Interesting article on Insidethepark.com. A.J. Burnett is officially out in Florida, and he should be a FA target next year. His home numbers are better than his road numbers and he is a head case, but he's got the talent.

If he becomes available, which seems likely, Jason Marquis would be an interesting trade target. The Cards dont need him and he will be 28 next year.

I believe that Yorvit and Rene will be a solid catcher tandem next year, but if you do go after a catcher it should be Javier Valentin. He's a switch hitter and he bashes righties while struggling against lefties. That would make him the perfect platoon parter for Yorvit. Rene would stay in Tacoma as insurance.

Posted by Vladina at 9/27/05 2:11 p.m.

You know, with how badly the Orioles are doing, if the Mariners played their cards right, maybe they could get Tejada. Then they could play Tejada at 2nd base since they have the human vacuum machine at SS in Betancourt.