Consider it done. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1916771

I just hope he doesn't decide to go elk hunting where my dad and brother-in-law are going this weekend.

Way to go BoMel! Enjoy your return.

Does this mean that Sexson will reconsider leaving Arizona? Hargrove was interviewed on the Hot Stove League last night (though I missed it and heard his comments on the news this morning) that he'd LOVE to be reunited with Sexson. You have to think that the M's, then, were targeting him.

I'm happy for Melvin. With Delgado leaning towards Baltimore, could Sexson be in line for the M's? Two years at $17mil is the most I will go for him. Other leftovers are Overbay, Mientkiewicz, Clark, Olerud, Travis Lee..but I would like to see a deal swung for Teixera.

Backman is the Mike Price of baseball...

No way - what Price did was idiotic, but not against the law. Big difference. You can't be convicted in court of stupidity, but what Backman did went against both good judgement and the long arm of the law.

http://msn.foxsports.com/story/3139002

Delgado is targeted by two teams...Orioles & Seattle!

That would be a good start to this offseason, but much more needed!

Wow. Doesn't that franchise have enough problems already? I guess they feel Melvin is better for their image. What a huge public blunder for them to make though. And never mind what this does to Wally Backman, who is obviously the vulnerable personality type. At this rate, I expect that franchise to last only as long as the present labor contract. Revenue sharing is probably the only thing keeping the Diamondbacks in business right now.

And regarding Sexson, hopefully this WILL make him reconsider leaving Arizona. We certainly don't need him in Seattle. We already have enough guys with bum shoulders.

On the other hand, America - what a country! Where else can the ex-manager of a 99-loss team be hired to turn things around for a 111-loss team? (I guess everything's relative, as Einstein showed, and for the D'backs to lose "only" 99 next season would be a great improvement.)

Congrats to Bob Melvin! He lucked into this job, but I sincerely hope he can help the team improve. Now he has a real chance to prove his many doubters wrong, the chance he didn't get in Seattle. Good luck, Bob, you'll need it!

Screw Sexson wanting to stay - what about the Unit? I'm sure he'd like to play for Melvin again.

And we don't even know if Mike Price did what was reported. He's got a pretty hefty lawsuit filed against the reporter for SI, doesn't he? He may not even be a worse person than you or I, much less in the category of Backman.

Mike Price for UW Coach!!!!!!

Seriously, why would we want Sexson? I'd take Jacobsen over Sexson any day. No way that Sexson is better than Jacobsen + another stiff worth 8.5 mil per year (Pavano????)

Free agency is not likely to cure all M's troubles, offensively or defensively.

Trades, however, hold much promise. Winn we don't need. Franklin we don't want. Choo is valuable, as are Nageotte, Blackley, Baek, etc.

Our minor league system certainly isn't going to cure what ails us, not this year. However, Tui should be available to take over 3B in 3 years.

How about this infield in 2008:

1B Adrian Gonzalez
2B Jose Lopez
SS M. Morse
3B Tui
C Your guess is as good as mine....

How about this infield in the interim:

1B Gonzalez
2B Boone
SS Lopez
3B Glaus
C Olivo

Gonza and Glaus would be the big offensive additions. Reed would take over for Winn, of course. Ibanez remains in LF, or is moved to the bench by someone like Drew.

I prefer Delgado over Sexson. Dude can hit!

At least we will be better than one team!!! DelGado, please! We need a left hand masher rememember visions of Raffy..Don't want to demonstarte my ability to live ina dream world, but it was a nice spot on Ryan Anderson on the M's Web site..again a leftie..one can only imagine!

If the Mariners don`t improve in 2005, there may not be a team in Seattle in 2008.

BTW, I would take Sexson over the hay seed, Bucky anyday. I also prefer Delgado.

Don`t rule out the best left handed power bat when healthy (Junior).

Trade Winn, Olivo and Franklin for Griffey
-Keep Griffey at DH so he can't hurt himself.
-Bucky at 1B
Reed,Ibanez,Ichiro OF
-Boone 2b
-Lopez SS/3B see below

And Then spend our money on getting the best SS/3B (Nomar, Beltre, Glaus) on the market.
It's sad that the best 3B the mariner's have ever had is Jim Presley.

Also go get Varitek with Wilson as a backup, the mariner's have never had an above average Catcher or third baseman

Though he's not remembered for being a 3B, I'd vote for Edgar in his brief stint there as the best M's 3B. David Bell would be second...

I'm the best 3B that the M's have had in the last 3 years. Yeah baby! And a local hero too!

My view on the whole Backman situation is this...

Im happy for Melvin because i actually like him. As for Backman, i feel for him because as all of us know we make mistakes in our lifetime that we wish we could take back. I hate to see an oppurtunity taken away from somebody because of mistakes they have made in the past. I dont disagree with the D-Backs for making this decision though. I just feel for Backman and wish him the best of luck in the future.

Now as for free agents....

I was watching Sportscenter and ESPN the Maganizes Buster Olney said that the M's will have around 30 million to spend this offseason. I dont believe that one bit...i'd say more likely around 20 million.

I love Sexson, but based on our needs i think Delgado would be a better fit. We need a left handed power bat badly...he brings that. And believe it or not i'd like to bring in Corey Koskie over the more high priced free agents...this way we can spend some money bringing in guys like Radke, Lowe or Pavano and also some bullpen help.

Hey do you think BoMel will trade for me? What a loss that would be for this city. And on the heels of the recent election debacle, I don't know if this great state could recover. Now I'm depressed.

We can only hope, Willie B.

They didn't check the guy out before hiring him?
How Mickey Mouse is that?

Maybe now that Melvin is in Arizona he will want his "homies" with him. Spiezio, Willie (went to one of the Arizona Universities..sort of hometown boy) and Franklin. I think just to rid us of them Bavasi might take a Sagauro cactus and a postcard of the Grand Canyon in trade.

My votes are for Sexson/Delgado (either one would be great) and Glaus. As for pitching, depending on how much the first two players cost us, it would be great to sign a free agent. There is a chance, however, to acquire players through trades, so who knows what kind of pitching we might be able to trade for.

I've heard Oakland is trying to unload one of the "three" in hopes of getting prospects before they hit free agency. As much as it would pain me to send any of our prospects to the A's, how sweet would it be to have either Zito, Mulder, or dare I say Hudson in our starting rotation? One way or the other, I can't wait to see what moves are made during the offseason. There's hope for next year.

On a side note, last year was such a disaster because so many of our players had off years in 2004. I truly believe players like Meche, Pineiro, Boone, etc. will bounce back and have solid years. And I think a lot of our young players will surprise people. Add that to potential FA and we should be much more competetive next year.

OMO,

As nice as it would be to have one of the Oakland three I seriously doubt they would ever trade one of them to someone in their own division.

They may trade them across the Bay to San Francisco but only if the Giants promise to send over 5,000 fans a game so people don't mistake Oakland Coliseum for the former Olympic stadium in Montreal.

Griffey at DH so he wont get hurt?

Most of his injuries have occured while doing what...RUNNING THE BASES!

Mike Thompson,
Thanks for creating a forum that has inspired many to create and express their opinions regarding the state of the Mariner's franchise and future. I wish many that I have attacked to accept my apologies for my Pinella-like short fuse from past explosions. I strongly believe that there is much talent waiting to blossom in our farm system to help alleviate the mistakes that have most recently been made. I firmly believe Howard Lincoln is the key player in what the fate of the franchise will become. Worst case scenario, Lincoln's hidden agenda is to try to lower attendance as an excuse to lower the budget and model the team after the Oakland A's low budget philosophy. I also see a bright future with the youth. I wish everyone the best of luck and thank all those who greatly supported my ideals and enjoyed my website. Because of a highly personal and sensitive matter
I will no longer be sharing my thoughts with the many I have enjoyed agreeing and arguing with in the past. I strongly urge to have an open mind when encountering opinions that differ from your own. Before dismissing an idea give consideration before quickly dismissing it. Write letters to the Japanese ownership on how dishonorable and unhappy you are with CEO Lincoln. Put pressure on Lincoln and collaborate in Sunday Ads denouncing the regime if it continues to repeat past mistakes. Darryl, Tony,
keep up the good work. My only regret is not seeing the swim suit photos of Suzi that Leather got to see. Good Luck, and God Bless a diverse America.

There are swimsuit photos of Suzi floating around? Real ones? Can they be googled?

Good luck Logan...

He's pulling your leg or some other part of your anatomy.

That was funny, though.:-) Bye Logan!!!

Or maybe they are really pictures of BoonieFan.;-)

I want to live with a "Cinnamon Girl".
I can be happy the rest of my life with a "Cinnamon Girl".

Good luck and bye, Logan!
Well, tell us you're not going to Iraq...

Pass on Zito, numbers down three years in a row. Hudson would be great! What about Lowe? A ground ball pitcher at safeco should be a great thing. Pass on Glaus. Too many injuries and that was the reason we decided to trade Carlos. One of the first and worse decisions by Bavasi. What about the rumor, that the times writer recieved a tip from BoMel? Why am I all over the place. Too many double mocha's. Keep posting and no google hits for suzi

So, now that Melvin has taken another manager position, does that mean the Mariners save the money owed to him for 2005? I think so...no wonder Bavasi was pushing Arizona to hire him. I'm starting to like this Bavasi guy. Good call on Guardado and getting Cabrerra and Reed, Olivo, etc.
Here's what I think will unfold in the next few months:
Delgado will sign with Baltimore. Beltran and Beltre will price themselves out of our market.We can sign Sexson, but not Glaus as they are too righthanded...but sign Koskie and Sexson and we add more power from both sides. If Sexson wants too much to come home, give Travis Lee an invite. I'd take a chance with him on a an incentive based salary. If we had Lee and Koskie, take a shot at Ordonez, if he doesn't bite, trade Winn for a left handed power hitting OF.
Before all, I'd try to pry Texiera lose (three way trade??) or even Adrian Gonzalez. Last resort would be Mientkiewicz.

Yankees decline Leiber's option of $8M with a $250k buyout.

Something for us to really think about here is picking up Lieber! He made $2.7M with NYY last year. And, his average ERA for the past 3yrs at Safeco is 3.9ERA. He's devastating on RHB's, but LHB's are another story. He's 34yrs old, but he is an inning eater, and has great defense, and an awesome pickoff move that make it tough for runnings to advance on him!

Yanks declined his option, but there were rumors for the past several weeks that they would consider resigning for less money $6M or even less!!!

Seattle was reported several days ago, as being in a major run for Radke. Twins are only offering a 2yr $14M deal

His average ERA @ Safeco over the past 3yrs is 3.18ERA, and is a inning eater too averaging nearly 230 innings per season all throughout his career, and only 32yrs old.

************************************************

I really think Radke will go between $8-9M/yr, and he's our man! He'll be reunited with Guardado too, and moving to a pitchers park where his numbers have shined over the years!

In addition to signing Radke, I really think that the M's should seriously look into signing Lieber too...to an incentive laden contract! He could very well sign in the $4-5M range with incentives. He could have a guaranteed base salary of the same salary he made last year, or even $3M, with incentives that would allow him to make up to $4.5-$5.5M?!

Radke
Lieber
Pineiro
Meche
Moyer/Madritsch

The Yanks wanted Moyer really really bad last July. But that was before Moyer finished pretty awful! Since the Yanks are SO disappointed witwh Vasquez the Yanks would be willing to trade us Vasquez for Moyer, and also pay Vasquez's salary above the $9M mark over the next 3 yrs. That would:

YANKEES
1. give the Yanks a LHP in Moyer who they really wanted this past July, and would be a better risk than signing Wells this offseason as a 42yr old LHP with known injury/back issues,
2. move Vasquez off the Yanks hands, and his 3yr contract
3. free up an extra $3M for the Yanks in 2005
4. free up an extra $9M for the Yanks in 2006 and in 2007.

SEATTLE
1. Give Seattle a young potential ace that has way more potential than Freddy for $9M/yr,
2. Vasquez has just been devastating on AL West teams except for Seattle. He has done the best with the Angels, only allowing a batting avg of 184 on opponents...234BA with opponents with A's...240BA with opponents with Texas.
3. Plus Vasquez would be moving to a pitchers park, so I have NO DOUBT his ERA would drop like a rock down close to the 3ERA level!!!

If we were able to pickup Vasquez on trade with Moyer, then we wouldn't need to go after Lieber:

Radke ($8-9M/yr for a 3yr contract)
Vasquez (instead of Moyer, and $3M extra for M's in 2005)
Pineiro
Meche (Lieber if Meche doesn't resign for less than $3M)
Madritsch

This would be a rock solid rotation for years to come!

Garry,

Im actually pretty excited about the possibility of us signing Radke. He's always been a good pitcher. I also like your idea of Vazquez. I doubt it happen though because you know how much the M's like family people and they would never get rid of their future pitching coach, just like they'd never get rid of their future FO yes man (Wilson). Plus Moyer would have to waive his no-trade clause, and Im not privy to the information, but I dont think that he'd do that.

I'm happy for Bob. The desperate D'Backs are in for a long season.

I'm happy for Bob too. I hope he does well with
the Dbacks.

Maybe we can play them when we get to the WS.;-)

I'll miss Logan. At the very least he was a worthy opponent. I do wish I did have those photos of the twins.

Its hard to know where to start slamming Garry this time. I guess his assertion that Vasquez has "way more potential" than Garcia is a good starting point. Maybe you should check the numbers before you make such a moronic claim. As I have pointed out several times, Vasquez's era and HR allowed were identical to Franklins this year. Garcia has been better for a long time. Ask yourself, if you were a GM (WHICH GARRY ISNT) which pitcher would you rather have?

I like Vasquez, dont get me wrong, but why exactly would the yankees trade a young starter who had a bad year for a 41 year old starter who had a bad year and is most likely going to retire at the end of the season? To save money? Are we talking about the yankees?

If they DO want to trade him, which is quite possible, dont you think they could get much more for him? I mean really, Garry, are you this stupid?

The yankees may have declined Liebers option, but he was their best pitcher down the stretch and they will be resigning him. Describing him as an innings eater is kinda funny, since he missed the previous 2 seasons due to injury.

Meche will receive more than 3 million. Thats a bargain for a young starter with his potential.

Radkes great, i love him, but not until we fix the offence.

Oh and one last one for the Dan Wilson haters. You all deserve a pimp slap for your disloyalty to this guy. He's the last link to 1995 now. He is an excellent tutor for our young catcher and our young pitchers.

During this 10 year run, there is no one except for Edgar who has done more for this team than Dan.

2.5 million is a bit much, I agree, but I want this guy on my team. He's one of a very few guys i would overpay a tiny bit for. Its not like hes demanding a 10 year deal.

Now he's a yes man because he didnt make Nelsonian comments about the FO? I guess Edgars just a yes man too.

Dan Wilson is a Mariner. He's the best catcher we have ever had. He deserves to retire as a Mariner. If they do have the foresight to keep him in the organization, I applaud them for it.

So, if you have any future yellow-bellied sissified, backstabbing comments about dan wilson, please just become a yankees fan. Real Mariners fans are loyal to guys who have played a decade for our team.

Didn't Sexson already have a relatively high asking price?...pretty sure it was him who wanted like 3 years, 10 mill a year or sumthin like that...it was in an other blog on here a month ago...

Ken Griffey Junior played more than 10 years for the M`s. He left to go home and took less money to do so.

Yes, he has had nothing but bad luck in Cinci but he gave his best years to the M`s.

Then why are some fans so hateful about any talk of his return, even at a bargain price?

I hope Logan is ok. I sure hope it is not a health issue.

I'm loyal for less than that. ;-)

Garry's a bit of a magical thinker when it comes to baseball trades. Eveybody else's players are better and worth more than ours.

Dan's done right buy us. So he supports a group that would deny a woman's right to choose even to save her life - he's a damn fine catcher and I say he stays.

Junior is a bit different since he forced a trade and handcuffed the team by proclaiming in the media that he would only accept a trade to Cincy.

I dont hate junior, but i dont really want him back either. These scenarios where we get him for practically nothing are unrealistic.

That bridge is burned. Junior can still play CF in our memories.

Yeah, apparently Sexson was asking for something like a 3 year 30 million dollar contract. Little too steep for a player coming off injury.

I will never understand people. If you are getting 8 million a year does 1 or 2 million more really make that big a difference?

It does when Howard Lincoln blames Freddy Garcia's arbitration increase of 975,000 for preventing the Mariners from using money for roster improvements. In any case, saving two million every year for three years costs us six million less altogether. A few million here or there adds up eventually. If you add up the actual costs of the players Finnigan mentions, you save a good 5-8 million. Especially the ludicrous estimate that a small group of players will cost us 10 million. If Villone and Wilson each costs us more than 1.5 million, I'd rather not resign either. Well, Wilson maybe. But Villone? I don't even know why we want to resign him in the first place.

You missed the point entirely. Probably because, though it is baseball related, it is a philosophical question and not yet another statement about contracts, trade values or pitch counts.

Why do people (players) need 10 million when surely 8 million dollars is plenty money for anyone to ever need let alone make in one year?

Greed is ...... good?

Does anyone ever think to themselves, "Oh, I don't need that much money. I get to play a game for a living. 2 or 3 million is plenty."?

Evidently not. Good american values - get as much as you can.

Oh, my bad. In that case, I have no idea. It's the same reason why I'll never understand A-Rod.

I know! I surely would have taken 10 or 12 million and stayed in the Northwest or somewhere nice. I still don't know if I would sell my soul if I had to live in Texas.;-)

Maybe it's not greed. Maybe they just have such enormous egos that they see how much they are paid as external validation of their importance in society.

Personally, I have never measured the success of a person by the size of his wallet.

Leather,

It wasnt a knock on Wilson. I hope he stays, and I hope that he comes back for 1-1.5 million. I just made that comment because I think the only reason why the M's would keep him and be so loyal to him is because of the fact that he would probably want to stay in the organization (see Pat Borders). If this were the Yanks, he would have been gone long ago because of his lack of offensive skills. I would never bash Dan though, because he is our organization's best catcher ever, and one of the best defensive catchers in baseball.

BoonieFan,

8 million is not enough. If you'd ask Latrell Spreewell (SG for the Wolves) he would never accept a 10 mil per year deal because he needs to feed his family, even though he is making 14 million this year.

Bye Logan, and best wishes!

Sexson reportedly turned down the D-backs most recent offer which supossedly was for around $10 million this year. They didn't say how long the deal was for. I think I read that on ESPN's Rumor Central. It also said that he wouldn't mind playing for the Yankees. Apparently he likes Stienbrenner and wants to win now. I don't think the Yankees would be all that interested in him though. They have other pressing needs (pitching).

Twins have reportedly offered Radke a two year deal for $14-19 million. Radke said he prefers a two year deal. Surprising! I would think he would want as many years as he could get considering his age, I can't see that his bargaining power would be any better in two years. He's coming off a great season.

Mariners need to go after Delgado and dump a truckload of money on Adrian Beltre. A starting pitcher would be nice but the offense should be the first priority. There seems to be interest in Delgado from several teams and the O's are said to be serious. He won't get anywhere near what he got last season but with several teams bidding he won't come all that cheap. But Beltre and Delgado would shore up the lineup. Go after offense first and if we can move some salary like Winn and Franklin, a starter would be great.

I have never particularly liked Delgado and his refusal to stand for the national anthem in protest of the war is tacky in my opinion. But he seems to be the best fit. I guess suzi and leathers would like him. Just kidding!

Beltran. Man would I love to get this guy...but I have been thinking - Beltre and Delgado as FA aquisitions sounds really good. A nice place to start. I would still like to improve our CF defense though - any thoughts on what it would take to get Jones from Atlanta or Hunter from Minnesota via a trade?

ADP & Daryl, Sexson was reported wanting a 3yr $30M contract, and then several weeks ago it was reported that "Sexson" lowered it to $8M/yr for 3yrs...but it still wasn't close to what Arizona was offering. Now it's looking like he doesn't resign with the DBacks (my opinion).

USA Today Reported - Oct. 27 Trying to keep impending free agent Richie Sexson (1B) ARZ. in the fold, the Diamondbacks have raised their contract offer to three years, according to the Arizona Republic.

The only thing Arizona raised was the contract length to a 3yr deal, not $$$.

But now as of yesturday, Sexson is requesting his $10M/yr for 3yrs again...maybe because of the BoMel news:

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/diamondbacks/articles/1106sexson1106.html

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/diamondbacks/articles/1104dbnb1104.html

"On Monday, Close rejected the club's latest offer, a three-year deal believed to include $10 million in guaranteed pay in one of the seasons, but salary based on games played and plate appearances in the other two."

So it appears to me that Sexson & his agent are pushing for an incentive laden 3yr deal. So, they're not expecting $10M/yr every year, it appears Sexson wants the chance to make $10M if his perfomance is "proven".

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-splieber064032144nov06,0,2840028.story?coll=ny-baseball-headlines

After missing the 2003 season, Lieber came into his own in the final two months of 2004, finished 14-8 with a 4.33 ERA and had three solid starts in the playoffs. In addition to his salary of $2.45 million, Lieber made $3.25 million in incentives. He also is due a $250,000 buyout.

************************************************

I actually wasn't aware of Lieber's $3.25M Incentives he made this past year. That would bring him up to $5.7M he made in 2004. I would be all for offering Lieber a 3yr incentive laden contract similiar to this every year. If he's out there performing, then he can make up to $6M/yr w/incentives. I have no doubt, whereever he signs, he will be signing an incentive laden contract. For 3yrs now, I've been pushing that all players should be on incentive laden deals. These players have the most incredible outstanding year (ie: Bill Mueller last year), and then follows it up with an average year. Now granted Mueller was already under contract for several years, but when these "outstanding years" happen in the last year of their contract, it pushes their salaries threw the roof on a longterm contract...and the minute they sign the contract they don't even have to perform at that high level to get that kind of money for the rest of the new contract. They tend to get rewarded for one incredible year, then the team is stuck with them in a ridiculous contract that hinders the team SO MUCH financially!

I think ALL players should be on incentive laden contracts, because then they would get paid for performing EACH and EVERY year (AB's and Plate Appearances, etc.) And, all teams would end up being more competitive, because they all would have more financial flexibility if a player went down.

Think about it! What other job out there can a employee do awesome one year, and have outstanding "performance appraisals"...and then for the next 3-10 yrs do NOTHING (pefect example: Giambi on Roids & tumor now)...AND NOT GET FIRED?

In Giambi's case, he was taking drugs to enhance his performance, AND THEN once he signed that huge contract with the Yanks & MLB put a stop on Roids Giambi deflated like a baloon and can't do squat!

Even though I hate the Yanks SO MUCH, should any team have to financially pay for Giambi's salary because of this now? I personally consider this fraud! He inflated his numbers with drugs, got the longterm HUGE contract...and NOW suffering from the Roids he was taking when he was inflating his numbers to get a huge contract?!

I have issues with all of this, and if the Yanks would of signed Giambi to an incentive laden contract that he could make up to his $20M+ salary every year...the Yanks wouldn't be going through all of this right now and MORE THAN LIKELY having to eat Giambi's remaining salary.

I would love to say that it serves the Yanks right, because they are so greedy and have to steal every allstar in MLB (even for their bench). But, it isn't fair for any team, including the Yanks, to have to go through this with these kind of baseball contracts.

I've noticed over the past 3yrs that teams are FINALLY getting smarter, and focusing on incentive laden contracts more and more. Even the Yanks with Leiber! I wasn't aware that Leiber was on an incentive laden contract. And, as it turned out he made an additional $3.25M in 2004 because of it. He also was one of their BEST pitchers down the stretch too...I wonder why...could it have been because he had incentives in his contract?!

I know this is kind of yesturday's news, but wow...Houston is taken a big hit next season! More than likely Beltran. It's looking more and more Clemens is finally retiring. And, the astros have been favoring cutting their budget versus adding to it. And, now losing Berkman he's out for "at least" 6 months with a torn ACL:

http://www.newsisfree.com/iclick/i,59821391,8895,f/

Some have slammed me on this over the past year, regarding incentive laden contracts. But if WE are going to offer ANY longterm contracts, especially to the likes of possible names like: Delgado, Sexson, Beltre, Nomar, Lieber, etc, etc, etc...

Then why not give these guys the $$$ they want, but MAKE them earn it base upon incentives:

1. If Delgado wants $10-11M, then give him a base of something like $6-7 with another $4-5M of incentives that he can "earn" every year of his contract IF he remains healthy & performs! That's what Sexson is pushing for in his contract!

2. If Beltre wants $12M, then give him a base of $6M with $6M/yr extra totaling $12M/yr if he continues to perform at his 2004 level!

3. Radke the same

4. Lieber the same

5. Beltran the same. I thought I would NEVER say this about signing a $17-18M contract...BUT, let Beltran have the possibility of making that kind of money every year for the next 5-10 years, and put his base salary at $9M like he made in 2004. AND, since Beltran is a 5-tool player, then if he performs in EVERY category of his game at the expected high levels (every year) then he should continue to be compensated base upon his annual performance!

6. Nomar would no doubt except a very "low" base salary, as long as he had some pretty attractive incentives over the next 2 years.

7. Same thing for Meche.

Seattle only budgets in 75% of the incentive laden contracts toward their entire annual budget, because history shows that only about 75% of "all" incentives in contracts are met every year. This could be a very good fiscal decision that could allow management to go a lot further this offseason with FA's!

The only issue I see is losing draft picks by signing guys like Sexson. I found out today that we would lose 2 draft picks by picking up Sexson in free agency! I don't have a clue what Delgado, Beltre, etc would cost us in draft picks. Anybody else know?

I love the news that the M's have already contacted Delgado's agent. I have thought for the last few weeks that the M's were looking to make a "quick strike" and send a message early, while shoring up one of their needs. Here's my thinking:

Scott Boras controls SO many of this year's top teir free agents, and historically we know he likes to milk the market, take his time, and play teams against each other. He usually drags things out. If we can get Delgado signed early in the process, then we've added a middle of the order guy to our lineup who is taylor made for Safeco, is a reputed great clubhouse guy, and still young enough that a 3 or 4 year deal makes sense.

Then we can afford to wait out the Boras sweepstakes, and in the meantime work some trade possibilities.

Finally, when the time is right and the market is set, we make our move on (hopefully) Adrian Beltre, or fall back to Glaus or JD Drew.

If we can get Delgado and ONE other of those guys, suddenly Boone, Ibanez and Jacobsen are hitting 5, 6 and 7 instead of 3, 4 and 5, and our lineup immediately makes us more competetive.

Daryl, Delgado does stand during the national anthem. He sits during "God Bless America".

It was reported early this past week that there are only 2 teams in high pursuit of Delgado and have contacted Delgado's agent expressing very serious interest:

Orioles & Mariners

There are a lot of rumors that a lot of teams are interested, but everyone else has more important needs than 1B, especially early in the offseason.

The other thing regarding the O's, is that they blew everyone away with signing Tejada to that huge contract. And, before the ink was even dry, they realized that they didn't have to go so high on Tejada to get him...thus stating this past July that they couldn't really afford Tejada's contract and even though his performance has been just outstanding (and more than was expected) they regreted committing to that much salary on him.

I just don't see the O's making that kind of a radical salary decision with Delgado this offseason.

The news is out on Sexson wanting a 3yr deal, with 1 yr being a guaranteed $10M, and the other 2 being incentive laden years with a base salary. I invision Delgado getting about the same exact kind of contract as Sexson. The only thing with Sexson & Arizona is that the Dbacks don't want to dish out $10M in any of the 3 given years. It was reported several weeks ago that Sexson lowered his 3yr deal from $10M/yr to $8M/yr. This is the same salary range that baseball analyst have been projecting Delgado to be at come 2005.

http://www.latimes.com/services/site/premium/access-registered.intercept

All-Star right fielders Shawn Green and Sammy Sosa would switch teams in a trade proposal the Dodgers and Chicago Cubs plan to discuss at next week's general manager meetings, baseball executives said Friday. The clubs will explore a deal that would send Green to Chicago and bring Sosa — the 1998 National League most valuable player — to Los Angeles in an exchange of high-priced outfielders. Green, who turns 32 on Wednesday, and Sosa, 36 on Friday, have no-trade clauses, and there are other potential contract hurdles to completing a deal that could be expanded to include additional players and teams. Green said his preference was to remain with the Dodgers but did not rule out waiving his no-trade clause.

**********************************************

This could be a major distraction from LA signing Beltre!

http://www.baltimoresun.com/services/site/premium/access-registered.intercept

If the Orioles have any concerns about the condition of Magglio Ordonez's left knee, the outfielder's agent wants to alleviate them. Agent Scott Boras said Ordonez is working out daily in Venezuela and Miami as part of his rehab from a second surgery two months ago to repair a torn meniscus. The Orioles appear to have serious interest in the free agent, and Boras is happy to flash the green light for future negotiations. "One thing Baltimore always has going for it is players have a favorable impression of it as a place to play and a great ballpark to play in," Boras said. Ordonez, 30, always has been comfortable at Camden Yards, where he's a lifetime .343 hitter with three homers and 14 RBIs in 108 at-bats. But teams haven't been comfortable with his health this season.

*********************************************

Considering the O's want several quality starters to sign this offseason, and having heavy interest in Ordonez too...just adds to the fact that I don't see them being as competitive with Delgado as the M's will be. I really think Delgado will be an M's next year.

You gotta love all these other teams. The Yanks want to move everybody, but all the teams so far seem to be only "willing" to work with the Yankee's...by sticking it to them, and having the Yanks pickup all the payroll on traded players, included their own players!

Here is another example so far:

http://nypost.com/sports/yankees/31793.htm

Discussions between the Yankees and Rockies concerning Kenny Lofton have broken off because the Yankees have no interest in taking catcher Charles Johnson ($9 million) in return for Lofton ($3.1 million). The Rockies like Lofton but want the Yankees to pay all of the $3.1 million.

** IN THE SAME ARTICLE REGARDING BELTRAN **

In other news, the Yankees and other organizations reacted with yawns to agent Scott Boras saying Carlos Beltran wants a 10-year deal. The Yankees are expected to be major players in the Beltran chase since they need a center fielder and the switch-hitting Beltran is the jewel of the free agent class who could be looking for $20 million a year. However, the Yankees are among many teams that believe Beltran won't sign until January and won't get more than six years at $14M per.

"That's Scott," a team executive said. "It's going to be a long winter."

********************************************

That's more realistic for Beltran, and if the M's can lock in Delgado at 1B on an incentive laden contract...They then could go hard after Beltran between $90-105 over 6-7yrs.

If all the teams can't see him making over $14M, even the Yanks, then Seattle couldn't afford not to lock Beltran up with the most competitive contract offered to him. Our OF defense would be the BEST in MLB, even if we ended up keeping Winn in LF...though I prefer a power LFer which we've always lacked, but Ibanez would be that power hitter in LF that we've never had! I do like Winn's defense in LF better than Ibanez, but with Beltran in CF Ibanez in LF would do even better defensively!

Just wanted to take a minute and say that now George Sherrill and I have something in common -- we have new nieces (and they happen to have similar names)! Congrats George on becoming an uncle, and even bigger congrats go out to Elsid and Mrs. Elsid on their new arrival!!!

Now back to baseball...

Looks like BoMel won't get his coveted pitching coach. BP is going to stay, per the PI article today. Yay!

I just came across another article:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20041106/DIGE06-3/TPSports/Baseball

O's & Mariners front runners on Delgado. O's are speculated to offer $10M for Delgado.

News on Ryan Howard:

http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/sports/10114034.htm?1c

If BoMel wants some Mariner memories to start his new job, he can have Willie Bloomquist, Jamie Moyer and Bucky.

Send Randy back to Seattle.

I have real doubts based on last year`s weak FA signings.

Don`t tell me that Seattle is going to let the F!*kin O`s outbid us again (Delgado).

Joe Randa and Shea Hillenbrand here we come.

Gary your optimism should be tempered, we all went through this last year.

Weasel,

No way we go after Jones (ATL), he is owed waaaay too much money over the next 3 years. I doubt ATL pays for some of it either if we traded for him.

Daryl,

Radke only wants a two year deal, because he wants to spend time with his family. I think he'll only go after a two year deal until he retires so that he can still get his money and retire when he wants to.

Delgado in an M's uniform would be outstanding. If Baltimore is the only other serious contender for Carlos, we should be able to outbid them after the contracts they offered to Tejada and Lopez last year. Plus, why aren't the O's more focused on getting pitching? They already have some decent bats. Either way, Delgado is a huge improvement for our line up.

Regarding Beltran, I still don't think we'll be able to stay in the bidding, and I think that's okay. In all fairness, we have a very promising young CF by the name of Jeremy Reed who performed well late last year and, givin the chance to play, could become a great everyday player. And his services wouldn't cost us $15-20 mill over the next 6 years.

If we get Delgado, we should focus on Beltre (cross your fingers), Glaus (a solid second option), or a pitcher like Radke (huge innings eater). I'd love to have Beltran, but for the money we'd spend on him we could fill a lot of needs.

If we get Beltran there would be no way that we get Delgado. I would think that we'd go after Glaus instead. It wouldnt make any sense to get Delgado and Beltran for the simple fact, where would Jeremy Reed play? We would have Ibanez in LF. That's why if we get Beltran, we would put Reed in LF and put Ibanez at 1B. If we get Delgado, we will also go after Beltre and keep Reed in CF and Ibanez in LF. It makes no sense what-so-ever to not play Reed. He is our best young player, and we desperately need young players. We didnt trade Garcia so that Reed could wait three years before getting substantial playing time at the major league level. Remember, no one considered Olivo the gem of the trade.

Just checking the attendance in major league baseball.

Safeco is one of the top draws over the last 5 years. Seattle attendance is dropping (no surprise) but if Settle becomes a major player this year`s in FA (like Anaheim) there is no reason why they can`t recover.

If Seattle will spend like they draw they should have a 100 mil budget. That`s plenty of money to secure impact players.

There is no excuse for Seattle to let teams like Baltimore, Detroit and even Anaheim beat them to the punch.

2000-2004 Attendance
City Ballpark 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 Total
ARL Ameriquest Field 2,800,147 2,831,021 2,352,397 2,094,394 2,513,685 12,591,644
ANA Angel Stadium 2,066,977 2,000,919 2,305,547 3,061,094 3,375,677 12,810,214
PHX Bank One Ballpark 2,942,517 2,736,451 3,198,977 2,805,542 2,519,560 14,203,047
STL Busch Stadium 3,336,493 3,109,578 3,011,756 2,910,386 3,048,427 15,416,640
BAL Camden Yards 3,296,031 3,094,841 2,682,439 2,454,523 2,744,013 14,271,847
CIN Cinergy Field 2,599,318 1,879,757 1,855,787 6,334,862
PHI Citizens Bank Park 3,206,532 3,206,532
DET Comerica Park 2,533,752 1,921,305 1,503,623 1,368,245 1,917,004 9,243,929
DEN Coors Field 3,285,711 3,166,821 2,737,838 2,334,085 2,338,069 13,862,524
MIL County Stadium 1,573,621 1,573,621
LA Dodger Stadium 3,010,765 3,017,143 3,131,255 3,138,626 3,488,283 15,786,072
BOS Fenway Park 2,585,895 2,625,333 2,650,862 2,724,165 2,837,304 13,423,559
CIN Great American Ballpark 2,355,259 2,287,250 4,642,509
CLE Jacobs Field 3,456,278 3,175,523 2,616,940 1,730,002 1,814,401 12,793,144
KC Kauffman Stadium 1,677,915 1,536,371 1,323,036 1,779,895 1,661,478 7,978,695
MIN Metrodome 1,059,715 1,782,926 1,924,473 1,946,011 1,879,222 8,592,347
MIL Miller Park 2,811,041 1,969,153 1,700,354 2,062,382 8,542,930
HOU Minute Maid Park 3,056,139 2,904,277 2,517,357 2,454,241 3,087,872 14,019,886
OAK Network Associates 1,728,888 2,154,496 2,169,811 2,216,596 2,201,516 10,471,307
MTL Olympic Stadium 926,213 642,745 812,045 1,025,639 748,550 4,155,192
SD Petco Park 3,040,046 3,040,046
PIT PNC Park 2,428,661 1,784,988 1,636,751 1,583,031 7,433,431
MIA Pro Player Stadium 1,218,326 1,261,226 813,118 1,303,215 1,723,105 6,318,990
SD Qualcomm Stadium 2,423,149 2,378,128 2,220,601 2,030,084 9,051,962
SEA Safeco Field 3,148,317 3,507,326 3,542,938 3,268,509 2,940,731 16,407,821
SF SBC Park 3,315,330 3,311,958 3,253,203 3,264,898 3,258,864 16,404,253
NY Shea Stadium 2,775,661 2,658,330 2,804,838 2,140,599 2,318,321 12,697,749
TOR SkyDome 1,819,885 1,915,438 1,637,900 1,799,458 1,900,041 9,072,722
PIT Three Rivers Stadium 1,709,119 1,709,119
TAM Tropicana Field 1,549,440 1,298,365 1,065,742 1,058,695 1,275,011 6,247,253
ATL Turner Field 3,229,082 2,823,530 2,603,484 2,401,084 2,322,565 13,379,745
CHI US Cellular Field 1,947,799 1,766,172 1,676,911 1,939,524 1,930,537 9,260,943
PHI Veterans Stadium 1,612,769 1,782,054 1,618,467 2,259,948 7,273,238
CHI Wrigley Field 2,789,511 2,779,465 2,693,096 2,962,630 3,170,184 14,394,886
NY Yankee Stadium 3,227,657 3,265,907 3,465,807 3,465,600 3,775,292 17,200,263
Total Attendance 72,702,420 72,567,108 67,944,389 67,630,052 72,968,953 353,812,922
Most Attendance Jacobs Field Safeco Field Safeco Field Yankee Std. Yankee Std. Yankee Std.
Least Attendance Olympic Std. Olympic Std. Olympic Std. Olympic Std. Olympic Std. Olympic Std

I think that we could raise our budget to 110 million without blinking. With our revenue from japan? Whoo, we could easily be a top-3 spender this year. We wont though. lol

Getting back to the topic, my review of Bob Melvin as M's manager follows:

The Mariners’ firing of Bob Melvin saddened me. I’m not sad because he’s a scapegoat for the failures of Bill Bavasi, Chuck Armstrong, Howard Lincoln, and the major league scouting department, although that’s a valid partial explanation for his dismissal. I’m always sad when a well-intentioned person who works hard and tries to improve his performance, but does an inadequate job, is fired.

We didn’t learn much about Melvin in ’03. We did learn that he was conservative and tried to be a players’ manager. Those traits contributed to his lack of success in ’04. Ironically, Melvin’s conservatism made him an ideal match for the Seattle organization. Unfortunately, conservatism and the cautiousness that is part of its definition has been a hallmark of the current ownership group and its general managers. The organization’s resistance to change has been good for fans because it has resulted in continuity. Fans have been able to retain popular players, but popular overpaid veterans faded to a point of little or no market or baseball value. Those include Mark McLemore, Dan Wilson, Edgar Martinez, John Olerud, and perhaps Jamie Moyer and Shigetoshi Hasegawa. As a loyal and conservative man, Melvin was too slow to acknowledge that what these players had done lately was more meaningful in the present than their histories. The manager never (publicly) admitted that players rarely have off-years in their mid-30s or beyond.

The dismal start of the ’04 season was a scream for change. Melvin chose not to rock the boat, insisting that the players’ histories proved that their performances would improve. That philosophy impressed his boss so much that Bavasi chose to pay Melvin for the ’05 season and said that was his reason. I kept pushing the panic button on my radio, while Bavasi and Melvin stayed on course well into June. The panic button is the big red one right next to the one I press when I need to shout at the manager to change pitchers.

Hiram Bocachica

Management at all levels of the Mariners organization has been neither forthcoming nor forthright about their reasons for decisions. The handling of Hiram Bocachica is a prototype of the Bavasi/Melvin administration. We’ll never know why Bocachica was invited to spring training. His history and recent performance was so undistinguished that he couldn’t play in the majors in ’03 with the worst team in American League history. My guess is that the organization wanted him to be a placeholder in AAA and lied to him to get him to accept that role. We know that he was invited to spring training and told he could win a job on the major league club. Early in spring training Bocachica’s outfield defense was reminiscent of Mike Cameron, he excelled on the bases, and he hit for average and power. Furthermore, he charmed Melvin and the fans with his ebullient personality. Boca’s performance was so startling that Melvin continued to play him and experiment with him at various infield and outfield positions. The former top draft choice of the Expos continued to make his lifetime .222 average seem mythical. Bocachica led the team in spring home runs and slugged .727. Willie Bloomquist was the incumbent utility man. He was popular, local, and had the benefit of inertia in a conservative organization. The team could have easily kept both players. However, Bocachica’s age (28) and history provided a strong argument for sending him down. The overriding consideration was that the second horrendous Jeff Cirillo trade saddled the Mariners with the expensive Kevin Jarvis. The organization was too reluctant to eat his contract and kept him as a mop-up man.

Bocachica was sent to Tacoma March 31. Right before the first game, Bavasi acquired Jolbert Cabrera, another 2B-OF, from the Dodgers. That was convincing evidence that Bavasi believed Boca’s spring training was just a fluke. I apologize for this unscientific observation, but in my recollection, most players in their primes who are returned to AAA after great AAA seasons or spring trainings get discouraged and fail to produce as well as they previously had. Boca was an exception: he hit .299 with seven homers and 21 RBI in 31 games at Tacoma. He was recalled June 2. By then, the Mariners were buried in the cellar and publicly considering replacing non-productive veterans with “young” players. Bocachica was the first position player to be recalled. The injury to Raul Ibanez created an opening shortly after that. The defensively disastrous Randy Winn moved to left and Bocachica played center. His .271/.357/.396 line in 48 at-bats in June was encouraging and more than adequate in context of the defensive upgrade and spark he brought to the team. When Ibanez came back, Bocachica rotted on the bench. He was designated for assignment July 21. The pathetic Mariners lack of interest enabled him to clear waivers and be outrighted to Tacoma. He returned August 10, but rarely played.

The odds that Bocachica could be a good major leaguer are slim. A player who is ignored by every team rarely blossoms into a solid regular or star. Yet, in a wasted season, Bocachica earned the right to prove he couldn’t play, and Melvin didn’t give it to him. The obvious move would have been to move the still-hobbling Ibanez to first and sit John Olerud.

John Olerud

Olerud is a much bigger symptom of Melvin’s poor judgments. Except for his defense, Olerud has always had the characteristics of an old player, so his decline may have been subtle to a casual fan. He has not been able to hit left-handers in this decade. Coming into the ’04 season, he hit .247 with six home runs in 603 at-bats versus lefties. In ’03, when he hit just .269 overall, Melvin let him accumulate a decade-high 164 at-bats against lefties, and he hit .239 with no home runs. He suffered a very typical split-second decline in reflexes. Olerud was 35 at the beginning of ’04. Melvin had no excuse for expecting a comeback. His failure to accept that Olerud had to be platooned if he was going to play at all was far more inexcusable. Finally, if Melvin was going to give Olerud enough rope to prove he was still a viable major leaguer, it needed to be a much shorter rope.

Manager Metrics

One of the best ways to evaluate a manager is by how his players perform relative to how they did under other managers. A manager can use a variety of skills to get the most out of his players. Tommy Lasorda, for example, was a poor strategist, but a great motivator. He made players believe in their abilities and pushed them to higher levels. Earl Weaver, on the other hand, was widely despised, but maximized match-ups to produce star statistics from ordinary players and ordinary statistics from mediocre players.

As coaches, especially pitching coaches, have made real contributions in recent years, they deserve a share of the credit or blame for how their players do. As in any other business though, the manager is ultimately responsible. If a pitcher blossoms under the tutelage of a Larry Bearnarth, Ron Perranoski, or Joe Kerrigan, give the manager credit for hiring those guys and giving them the latitude to accomplish success.

Melvin’s tenure was too short to say he helped or hurt anybody, but a few players glare in that spotlight. The obvious one is Carlos Guillen, who went from injury-prone marginal regular in Seattle to superstar in Detroit. However, Melvin shouldn’t be blamed for failing to get the most out of Guillen. Everyone expected that he would be that good if he stayed healthy for a full season. Now, you can expect more injuries and a return to ordinary performance.

Melvin had two athletically gifted catchers entering their prime and both became psychological messes who couldn’t hit and had defensive problems. Ben Davis was told the catching job was his to lose, and he went 2-for-35 in spring training and started the real season 3-for-33. After a demotion to AAA and a trade, his .231 average and .400 slugging percentage with Chicago were consistent were his career norms. Miguel Olivo had a .270/.316/.496 line in 46 games in Chicago and slipped to .200/.260/.388 in Seattle. He ended the year in an offensive and defensive tailspin.

The only player to improve under Melvin was Hasegawa. He had a career year in ’03 and followed it with the worst year of his career in ’04.

Among the in-season call-ups, the only players who were impressive were minor league veterans in the 26-28-year-old range. Melvin conservatively eased those players into significant roles.

Make the Boss Look Good

Bavasi stuck Melvin with Scott Spiezio and Rich Aurilia. Lemon laws don’t apply to baseball players, so the Mariners couldn’t get their money back. However, neither player justified the at-bats or lineup prominence that BoMel gave them. My speculation is that he stuck with them to avoid showing up his boss. Spiezio averaged a dozen points below the league batting average during his previous seven full seasons. His career high was 17 home runs (in 2000). The Angels had no interest in retaining him and the Mariners had no competition to sign him. Nothing in his history suggested he was qualified to hit in the middle of the lineup (or play third base as a regular). Spiezio finished last in the league with a soft .215 average. A late spurt saved him from dropping below .200. A manager who lets such a player bat 367 times deserves to be fired.

Aurilia’s crime was his defense. His lateral range was not much greater than the range in my kitchen. Either Aurilia or the public relations department developed the explanation that Aurilia’s defensive skill was through positioning based on knowledge of the hitters, and he had to learn the American League hitters. That would have been a valid explanation in the 1980s. However, Aurilia had played many interleague games against the AL West. Most teams subscribe to a service that graphs where every player hits the ball. The Mariners have an advance scout who provides information and a bench coach who positions fielders. Contemporary players don’t need to know anything to be positioned where the batter is most likely to hit the ball. Aurilia hit a soft .241 in 73 games before he was designated for assignment. His defense alone mandated such an action at least a month before it happened. Note that the only other team interested in Aurilia as a free agent was Detroit. San Diego took him off the Mariners’ hands and used him as a 25th man. Their shortstop got hurt in mid-September. They had so little respect for Aurilia’s ability to play shortstop for a couple of weeks that they traded for a shortstop.

Spiezio and Aurilia were disappointments because they performed worse than expected. Melvin let his team fall out contention in the spring by continuing to play these players with no offensive or defensive value and expecting better results.

Handling of Pitchers

Melvin developed a great relationship with pitching coach Bryan Price, but appeared to give him less autonomy last year. The team opened the season with the same five starters who pitched all 162 games in ’03 and a seemingly deep bullpen. Nearly everyone but Freddy Garcia got off to a bad start. Because the bullpen was overworked and a couple of relievers weren’t healthy, Melvin repeatedly let his starters get pounded. Joel Piniero rebounded, but his ERA didn’t, and his injury was arguably caused by his usage. Jarvis got frequent work because of the ineffective starting pitching, but was so friendly to hitters that even his agent couldn’t have objected if he had come into blowouts earlier and more often.

Hasegawa, Rafael Soriano, and Eddie Guardado all had spectacular years in ’03. No one could have anticipated the team would blow many games in the late innings. As Melvin frequently mentioned, Guardado was nicknamed “Everyday Eddie” for a reason. Yet, the team rarely needed a pitcher to save a game in the ninth inning, and Guardado didn’t get enough work. As the season progressed, the M’s biggest weakness was keeping the other team from scoring in the eighth inning. An obvious solution, ignored by Melvin, would have been to let Guardado pitch the eighth and ninth innings when the team had a lead. Instead, Guardado got frequent work in spurts and outlived his shelf-life in multiple stretches. The awkward usage led to blown saves and appears to be the reason the closer ended the season on the disabled list.

Ability to See the Forest

The AL West was too competitive for the Mariners to overcome a disastrous start and contend. Melvin, or his chain of command, needed to reach that conclusion much sooner. A quicker and more comprehensive housecleaning or retooling could have resulted in a .500 season. The slowness to act and to change led to players such as Aurilia and Olerud reaching the point of no market value. More importantly, the organization failed to get a meaningful look at their minor league prospects. Of the call-ups, only Bobby Madritsch proved he was capable of a starting role. The other prospects either showed that they weren’t ready or didn’t play enough to determine if they could be valid major league starters in 2005. The team entered the off-season with no idea who would start at catcher, first base, shortstop, third base, or designated hitter next year. Another organization could resolve those issues by evaluating players in the fall league, winter ball, and spring training. A wealthy organization like Seattle needs to know which positions they must fill through free agency. Any free agents they sign will devalue their prospects at the same positions. Howard Lincoln has promised the Mariners will lose money if necessary to contend in ’05. With the worst free agent crop in memory, the team is now forced to make more unwise spending decisions. Bob Melvin was a major contributor to that quagmire.

Melvin learned from experience and improved throughout his tenure. Unlike Maury Wills or Jimmy Snyder, he was competent. He didn’t alienate players and insist the team get rid of them as Dick Williams had. He didn’t grossly misjudge the abilities of players as Jim Lefebvre had. Melvin’s shortcomings were subtler and more balanced. He might do better elsewhere.

Like many of his contemporaries, Bob Melvin’s biggest shortcoming is his unwillingness to manage. A manager must make difficult decisions. He must sit a player he likes, a player who has starred for him in the past, a general manager’s misguided acquisition, or a fan favorite. Melvin faced all of those dilemmas by stacking the middle of his lineup with players in those categories. We’ll never know if Bill Bavasi couldn’t or wouldn’t explain his reasons for firing the manager, but he made the right decision.

Do you offer Cliff's Notes John?

Daryl,

Delgados refusal to rise was not a direct protest against the war. I was a protest of the nuclear bombing tests in Vieques. Imagine if someone was turning Whidbey island into a radioactive wasteland. You might be less than thrilled too. Not to mention the fact that Puerto rico is a part of the united states, even if it is only a commonwealth. I find his stance more than reasonable.

Nice post New York Savvy!!!

Now lets repost the top 11 teams sorted by the top attendance and Seattle ranks #2 under NYY, and Boston ranks way down in the #8 spot (despite Boston's $128M payroll!) and Anehiem & Mets are ranked #9 and #10 respectively.

2000-2004 Attendance
City Ballpark 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 Total

1. NY Yankee Stadium 3,227,657 3,265,907 3,465,807 3,465,600 3,775,292 17,200,263

2. SEA Safeco Field 3,148,317 3,507,326 3,542,938 3,268,509 2,940,731 16,407,821

3. SF SBC Park 3,315,330 3,311,958 3,253,203 3,264,898 3,258,864 16,404,253

4. LA Dodger Stadium 3,010,765 3,017,143 3,131,255 3,138,626 3,488,283 15,786,072

5. STL Busch Stadium 3,336,493 3,109,578 3,011,756 2,910,386 3,048,427 15,416,640

6. BAL Camden Yards 3,296,031 3,094,841 2,682,439 2,454,523 2,744,013 14,271,847

7. HOU Minute Maid Park 3,056,139 2,904,277 2,517,357 2,454,241 3,087,872 14,019,886

8. BOS Fenway Park 2,585,895 2,625,333 2,650,862 2,724,165 2,837,304 13,423,559

9. ANA Angel Stadium 2,066,977 2,000,919 2,305,547 3,061,094 3,375,677 12,810,214

10. NY Shea Stadium 2,775,661 2,658,330 2,804,838 2,140,599 2,318,321 12,697,749

11. TEX ARL Ameriquest Field 2,800,147 2,831,021 2,352,397 2,094,394 2,513,685 12,591,644

This really ephasizes the revenue issue from Forbes that LeoneForThird posted on his blogsite, and how the M's brass have been the WORST team to "reinvest" in their team!

Besides the Giants having almost the same attendance in 2004 as 2003, Seattle is the ONLY team out of the top 11 teams above that had any attendance hit. It was not only a hit, but they lost over 350,000 paying customers in 2004 versus 2003! That alone is a HUGE chuck of change, and will no doubt drop another 1,000,000 in attendance in 2005 if the M's brass don't make the biggest splash out of all the above 11 teams...even if they will have to raise payroll to $100M-110M!

Ooops, Denver should be #8 ahead of Boston:

DEN Coors Field 3,285,711 3,166,821 2,737,838 2,334,085 2,338,069 13,862,524

Leather,

We never did nuclear bombing tests on Vieques island. It was conventional munitions only. The only places we have ever tested nuclear weapons are New Mexico, Nevada, The south Pacific and the Aleutian Islands.

One other thing: Boston's payroll sat at $128M-132M in 2004. Angel's were at $122M ($17M over their budget).

With the revenue the M's have they can EASILY go to a $110M budget, and still be spending less revenue percentage wise than more then half of all other MLB teams!

With Boone's contract and Moyers 2005 contract, the M's have $55M accounted for at the present time for 2005's payroll. A $110M payroll would give them another $55M to spend this offseason, and still be dumping a ton of money/revenue in their pockets next year. With that kind of money, there is no doubt the M's brass could sign ALL THESE PLAYERS:

Beltran
Beltre
Delgado
Radke
Villone
Wilson
Percival

Also the $55M that would be available doesn't even count moving Winn's $3.75M salary and Franklin's $2.4M salary ($6.15M total) in a possible trade for a RP, or just move Winn for prospects, and keep Franklin in long relief.

History shows the M's WILL NOT reinvest their revenue into this team. History over the past 5yrs shows that the M's brass & Co are a bunch of greedy bastards!

By not providing the BEST team possible on a $110M budget for 2005, I will project that Safeco will only hold 1.2M next year in attendance. The only way to remedy the horrible situation the M's are in is to spend the available money that gets them to the $110M budget mark...AND THEY STILL WON'T BE LOSING MONEY, BUT POCKETING A TON. ESPECIALLY CONSIDERING THAT THE ATTENDANCE WOULD SURPASS THE NY YANKEES STADIUM ATTENDANCE IN 2005!!!

Delgado is made for safeco but finding first basemen is easy. Besides both Ibanez and Bucky can play 1B.

Ryan Howard would be a better fit because he is cheap and the Phil's are (in theory) looking for a trade.

The Yankees doing a Brown and Lofton for Andruw Jones seems the most likely scenario unless Bernie Williams has a problem. This deal will work out for both the Braves and Yankers. Beltran wouldn't be in the Yankees sights then.

The M's need a pitcher who can stay with the organization for a couple of years. If Radke only wants 2 years, it's a waste of money. The M's won't compete next year and MAY compete in '06. Radke becomes a FA right when the M's are making their run.

For all those who bash Bavasi,

How do we know what deals are truly his and what ones are Lincoln's? Bavasi was hired very late in the process. The Spiezio, Winn and Aurillia/Guillen mess may have been in affect before he was even hired. I will judge Bavasi from the beginning of '04 through the end of '05. We will see how much he can do this offseason.

I hope you are not serious about resigning Villone, Garry.

Sign Beltre, yes.

Sign either Delgado or Beltran. If you sign both, where does Ibanez play? A 4 million dollar 4th outfielder is what the Yankees would do.

I stated my reasons for Radke.

Please resign Wilson. 1yr/1.5 w/ option.

Mateo has 1 bad year out of 3. Hasegawa's contract falls off after next year. Soriano is back for '06 to replace Hasegawa. Putz, Atchison, Taylor could all be very good and a lot cheaper than Percival.

Garry,

You are a crazy man. Your numbers are ALL wrong. Horrifyingly wrong.

1) At the least, the Mariners have about $70 million committed to payroll for 2005.

2) Even if they had $110 million to spend, they would never land all of those players. THERE ARE OTHER TEAMS! You are fooling yourself. How old are you?

3) Even if the M's have an awful offseason, attendance will NEVER dip to 1.2 million. Double that figure to 2.4 million, maybe. Safeco Field is a beautiful place to watch baseball; people will go regardless of an average team. We (fans who want management to be accountable, and field a great team) are in the MINORITY. Like it or not, there are THOUSANDS of baseball fans in the Northwest who love to go to baseball games with their families and enjoy the outdoors. You are right that attendance dips with poor performance, but to say that only 1.2 million fans will show up is absolutely wrong. That's 14,800 fans per game. They drew that in the Kingdome with a .500 team before the 1995 catalyst season.

You just need to grow up, dude. Stop with the craziness, temper your enthusiasm, and see what unfolds. If you don't, you'll have a heart attack when you realize how foolish you were.

Wes,

Nothing wrong with a little enthusiasm, I prefer it to all of the negativity. You shouldnt call optimism foolish either. Maybe you should follow your own advice and "grow up".

Certainly hope they dont resign villone. We have lefties in the pen (Guardado Sherrill Thonton) and in the rotation (Madritsch, Moyer). You also have Blackley in the minors. If you want a swingman, Franklin is still on the team.

Im still hoping for Beltre, but it might be wise to be realistic and expect Delgado and Glaus. We could do worse. Its certainly a huge boost in power.

Ichiro
Reed
Glaus
Delgado
Boone
Ibanez

That top 6 would score some runs even if it isnt tremendously sexy.

If delgado really wants to squeeze us for $$$ then screw him. He can go play for the orioles and finish 3rd every year if he wants to.

Im sceptical as to whether Glaus will ever play 3rd again. He does fit the bill in terms of power and youth.

Knuckle dragger,

The us has certainly tested nuclear arms in the waters just off vieques. I am not computer savvy enough to post links but go to google and type in vieques nuclear testing and you will see pages of links referring to this accepted fact.

One site also noted a 27% higher rate of cancer on the island compared to the rest of PR, and heavy concentrations of heavy metals in the soil there.

Leather,

That lineup ain't gettin' my butt in the seat. Too many question marks.

But it is what we will be forced to watch. What a shame. What a shame.

Leather,

Considering I have been to both the Naval Station in Puerto Rico and the island of Vieques I have to say you are mistaken and this is why:

We never tested nuclear weapons there...ever

The prevailing winds flow across Vieques onto the island of Puertop Rico and on up the Carribbean into the DR Haiti and eventually Cuba. That alone is the main reason we never did it.

The islnad of Vieques is inhabited...always has been. We have never tested on an island that is inhabited.

When you read the articles on cancer statistics it has nothing to do with nuclear testing. They have a higher cancer rate there but that is due to the nasty nature of the explosives and other crap stored and tested there. Modern explosives are a toxic mix of many chemicals.

It is my job leather. I know what I am talking about.

So, knuckle dragger you've been to Puerto Rico? Did you ever visit me?

I can neither confirm nor dent that Black Angus. I believe you went out of business though after they decided to close the Naval Station.

Back to baseball.

Soon we will know how serious the Mariners front office is about trying to put a quality product out there next year. The time when we can actively pursue free agents is only a few days away.

Wes, you stated:

"1) At the least, the Mariners have about $70 million committed to payroll for 2005."

What are you talking about? Would you like to justify and post where you are getting that they already have $70 committed to contracts in 2005?

SEATTLE MARINERS

Under Guaranteed Contract:
2B- Bret Boone
2005: $9m
1B- Scott Spiezio
2005: $3.1m
C- Wiki Gonzalez
2005: $2.25m
SP- Kevin Jarvis
2005: $500k Buyout
LF- Randy Winn
2005: $3.75m
RF- Ichiro Suzuki
2005: $10.5m
LF- Raul Ibanez
2005: $3.75m
SP- Joel Pineiro
2005: $4.2m
SP- Ryan Franklin
2005: $2.40m
RP- Shigetoshi Hasegawa
2005: $2.90m
SP- Jamie Moyer
2005: $3.0m + $1.5m for 30+ GS in 2003 + $1.5m for 30+ GS in 2004 = $6M
2005 Total Guaranteed Contracts: $41.85M
RP- Eddie Guardado
2005: $4.5M Guardado picked up his $4.5M contract

2005 GUARANTEED CONTRACT TOTALS: $52.85M

Cheap Team Controlled Contracts:
CA- Miguel Olivo– 2004: $170k
3B- Greg Dobbs– 2004: $50k
3B- Justin Leone– 2004: $50k
2B- Mickey Lopez– 2004: $50k
SS- Jose Lopez– 2004: $50k
SS- Ramon Santiago– 2004: $50k
CF- Jeremy Reed
DH- Bucky Jacobsen
CA- Rene Rivera
SP- Bobby Madritsch– 2004: $50k
SP- Clint Nageotte– 2004: $50k
SP- Travis Blackley
SP- Cha Seung Baek– 2004: $50k
RP- Julio Mateo– 2004: $350k
RP- J.J. Putz– 2004: $50k
RP- George Sherrill
RP- Matt Thornton– 2004: $50k
RP- Randy Williams
RP- Scott Atchison (I see us trading Atchison)
RP- Aaron Taylor– 2004: $300k
RP- Rafael Soriano– 2004: $340k
OF- Chris Snelling– 2004: $300k (Trade him, I’m tired of his injures)

2005 TOTAL TEAM CONTROLLED CONTRACTS ESTIMATE: $2M

Arbitration Eligible:

SP- Gil Meche – Made $1.9M in 2004. He will no doubt sign a very similar contract like Franklin did. There are still questionable things regarding Meche that doesn’t merit a huge contract. Look for a 2yr deal with an option year: 2005-$2M, 2006-$2.4M, 2007-$3M team option

UT- Willie Bloomquist – Made $330k in 2004. Non-Tender him and let him find his way to Arizona with Melvin

2005 ARBITRATION CONTRACT TOTALS: $2M (Meche)

2005 TOTAL COMMITTED SALARYS THUS FAR...ROUGHLY: $56.85M And that is including Meche's new contract $$$ in 2005. And if you take Meche out for now since his resigning is a decision the M's haven't made yet...then the total committed is sitting right close to $54.85M as of this moment!

So Wes Dude, you are $15M off on your $70M comment! And, if the M's do jump the budget to $110M, which they can EASILY do and still have more revenue coming in than more than half of the MLB teams out there...

A $110M budget would give us approx $55M to spend this offseason, not even counting if they end up trading Winn & Franklin.

I'll tell you what Wes, everyone on this board knows that I'm an extreme optimist, and I have been over the past several years. But something none of us fans can deny, after the Forbes article, is that Seattle is the WORST team in MLB that DOESN'T reinvest in their team, and that they have the worst history over the past 3 years too.

It's getting appauling that my favorite team, the Seattle Mariners, are ran by a bunch of greedy assholes that don't give a rats ass about the fans. The M's brass know that they have to make the biggest splash this offseason over ANY other team just for big PR, and to keep the revenues coming in big!

So I don't agree with your post, and yes our attendance will hit all time lows over the next several years if the M's don't make DRASTIC changes in the way they think! Maybe not down to 1.2M in attendance, but I'll say it would be closer to 1.2M versus 3.5M!!!

delgado should definitly be plan A then sexson is
plan B. At third there are more options.beltre is plan A ,glaus is plan B,koskie is another possible
option.That is pretty much all the mariners will
do on offense.I don't even see beltran as a
possiblity.plus we already have reed and winn.
Then we definitly need a starter for 7-9 million.

My predictions:
we sign delgado 4 yrs 44 million

we sign jaret wright after we can't get brad radke.
3yrs 21 million

we sign glaus to four yrs:36 million

we will trade for a reliver like jorge julio.

Matt,

I dont think you're too far off. But instead of Wright, I would go for a Russ Ortiz. He's an inning eata!

I guess we would be pushing Franklin out of the rotation by signing a pitcher. Franklin's record was 4-16 but he did pitch over 200 innings. I would tend to think Franklin qualifies as an inning eater.

I know the M's have not been mentioned with Beltran. Was Vlad mentioned with Anahiem before he signed?

BTW Matt, the M's have plenty of bullpen help but not enough experience there. That is why they would get a reliever or resign Villone.

Personally I do not endorse signing any pitcher this offseason.

No "nucular" bombs on Vieques. Just conventional ones. "Conventionl bombs". Yikes.

BTW, have you guys seen the tv commercial for Cinular/ATT where they morph Randy Johnson and Roger Clemens into one pitcher?

yeah,

As eye wrenching as that morph is, it is still an upgrade for Randy.

LOL. Yeah, he is one ugly dude.

I want to live with a Cinnamon Girl. I could be happy the rest of my life with a Cinnamon Girl.

For the split second they show the morphed face I tried to focus on it, but my eye couldn't (for lack of a better word) "see" the actual face.

And my previous statement still stands.

Yo, Neil!! Pipe down!!

Don`t let us down Howard.

Peace and love. Be kind to each other.

We place our faith in you Bavasi.

Go M`s.

Garry,

That's a very complete salary breakdown, and while it does take a step towards contradicting recent reports that the M's "only" have 20-23 million to spend on new salaries, I must make two points.

1) You forgot about Jeff Cirillo. We're still on the books for his salary this year. How much is it? $4 million? $5 million?

2) Give up the pipe dream of the M's bumping up payroll to $110 million. They have stated over and over again in the past few weeks that payroll will be in the same range as last year; low to mid 90's. It's a great thought, but not worth fantasizing about.

My thoughts on recent reports....

I love the fact they've jumped right out and contacted Delgado. I have thought for a couple of weeks, based on everything the front office is saying, that they feel it's important to make a "quick strike" early in the FA process (think Chad Brown on day #1 of the signing period in Paul Allen's first year as owner of the Seahawks.) This makes sense for two reasons. First, Delgado is a guy taylor-made for Safeco Field, and would be the perfect #4 hitter for our new lineup. Second, it would take a non-Boras guy off the market while the rest of baseball plays Boras infamous waiting game. We all know how he likes to draw the market out, so let him. We sign Delgado, work in a few trade possibilities, maybe sign the starting pitcher we're after, and then when the Boras market starts to shake out, and the Beltran deal is done, we can move in on Beltre, or, if we fail to get him, maybe Drew or Glaus.

Get Delgado, and it will start the offseason off on a great foot. Do it.

Danimal, you're right about Cirillo. I did forget to mention the portion of salary the M's are responsible for in 2005 totalling another $4.78M.

That still puts us right at a little over $59M...meaning the M's would have approximately $36M if they stuck with the same $95M budget that was imposed in Nov 2003 for 2004!

When I hear these pathetic reports that the M's only have $13-15M or $22-25M to spend this offseason...it makes me sick to say the least!

Ben Maller Reported this morning:

ORDONEZ:

The interest in White Sox free agent Magglio Ordonez officially has started, and it should be running wild this week as agent Scott Boras mingles with baseball officials at the general managers' meeting in Florida. The Baltimore Orioles might have Ordonez at the top of their wish list this winter, if for no other reason than he's a .343 hitter in 108 at-bats at Camden Yards. Of course, like the Sox, Baltimore has concerns over Ordonez's left knee, which was supposedly fixed with surgery in Austria

The Baltimore Orioles, Los Angeles Dodgers and Texas Rangers all are among the teams believed to have interest in Jason Varitek, and each has the resources to make a legitimate bid, even with the Rangers having downsized in the post-Alex Rodriguez era.

One major league executive believes that Baltimore will make a huge push for Carlos Delgado, though there is also the belief in baseball that Baltimore will move Lopez to first base and take a run at both Jason Varitek and Derek Lowe. Lopez has said he would accept such a move, which would improve the O's in a number of ways.

BELTRAN:

The Yankees have told the Rangers they would be willing to reacquire Alfonso Soriano and play him in center field if Carlos Beltran goes elsewhere. And Scott Boras' indication that Beltran is looking for a 10-year deal didn't do much for the Yankees' confidence that Beltran will be in pinstripes. The Rangers are shopping Soriano because he made $5.7 million last year, is arbitration eligible (think $7 to $8 million) and will be a free agent following the 2005 season. Soriano, who was dealt for Alex Rodriguez last February, has never been shy about his love for the Yankees and New York. However, unless the Yankees can offer the Rangers more than Robinson Cano, it will be hard to make a deal, because the Rangers are looking for pitching.

*************************************************

This last post on Beltran & Yanks is very encouraging! Just like last year, with Sheffield, George didn't "allow" his contract to get out of hand when he was wanting to get $17m/yr from the Yanks. George told him to take a flying leap and if he could find more money elsewhere over George's original offer of $13M then Sheff better take it...BUT George said he wouldn't go a penny more! Shef finally signed with George for the $13M.

I've stated this before, but George dictates & controls contract standards in MLB ($$$ and terms!) on players...all the other teams follow behind what decisions and money he dishes out!

It was reported yesturday, and I posted it here, that all executives EXPECT Beltran to sign a 6-7 year deal for NO MORE than $14M/yr. Seattle couldn't afford to pass that up, considering what he would bring to Safeco! And, Seattle is in a better cash position than any other team this offseason!

http://www.nj.com/sports/times/index.ssf?/base/sports-10/109973198586222.xml

"Free-agent list impressive but salaries will be smaller

While there are several attractive players among the nearly 200 who have already filed for free agency, we shouldn't expect any record-topping salaries like the $17-million-plus long-term contracts we have seen in recent years. One of the reasons is the law of supply and demand, another is the looming prospect of another labor war in 2006. "

Reader J - it pretty much looks like Clemmens with Randy's scubby looking hair.

Not that that is a good deal for Roger.

Reader J,

I want a FA pitcher for one reason, Franklin sucks. He is constantly one of our worst pitchers (at least that's as it seems). I think him and Winn are gone for sure in this offseason frenzy.

Winn would be awesome on the bench. Where did the Carlos Lee rumors go? I heard the Sox wanted to trim salary via trade...has that vanished due to Magglio leaving? Carlos Lee batting second in this lineup would be great if they also picked up Delgado! Forget about Beltran....Lee is half the cost and hits .300, hits 30 HRs, steals 20-25 bases, and drives in 100 runs. How many runs would Ichiro have scored if Lee was batting #2 instead of Winn?

This is what? November?

Geez. I got a serious baseball jones going already.

Yo buss dis. I miss baseball. Sheeit!

Yea me too Suzi!

Man it's dead in here today...

Franklin may not be very good. I won't argue.

I will argue that none, that is zero, of the available pitchers in this years market is worth the money. If the M's keep the status quo for '05, in '06 our starting staff could look like: Johan Santana, Joel Piniero, Bobby Madritsch, Gil Meche, Felix Hernandez.

Where would the FA pitcher you signed this year go? Meche has the true potential to be very good. None of the available starters on the market have the age and potential that Meche has (except Pavano). If you replaced Meche with a FA, that FA would cost at least twice as much.

Spring- Winn would be awesome on the bench? Don't the M's have limited funds? We need to sign real players and trade players that are no longer needed (read: Winn).

Reed is the future #2 in this lineup. Why forget Beltran when we can't get Lee?

Everyone- If the M's get an OFer, then we do not sign anyone at 1B. Ibanez had a great bat last year and is LH in a lefty hitting park.

Suzi- Roger got a bum deal on the morph. Hopefully he got paid to heal his wounds.

I wouldnt sign Pavano for sure. You have a good point. I think that maybe Radke would be a good man to get in here, he would only want a 2 year deal. That would, inturn, allow Felix another year of "seasoning" in the minors. Remember, he might not be ready to fully contribute in '06, and could possibly be better used out of the bullpen for a while so he could get used to ML hitting. I think if we could get Radke that I would be happy. But you brought up a good point that I didnt think about. Every other FA pitcher this year (besides Radke) would want a long-term deal.